Democracy Paradox
- Épisodes
- 240
- Parution
- toutes les deux semaines
- Dernier épisode
- 14 Oct 2026
À propos du podcast
Is it possible for a democracy to govern undemocratically? Can the people elect an undemocratic leader? Is it possible for democracy to bring about authoritarianism? And if so, what does this say about democracy? My name is Justin Kempf. Every week I talk to the brightest minds on subjects like international relations, political theory, and history to explore democracy from every conceivable angle. Topics like civil resistance, authoritarian successor parties, and the autocratic middle class challenge our ideas about democracy. Join me as we unravel new topics every week.
Épisodes 240
Michael McFaul Says Powerful Autocracies as a Lasting Threat
We don’t need to export ideas about freedom and democracy because those ideas are already really popular around the world.Michael McFaulWhy do some powerful countries become adversaries while others remain …
Notes de l’épisode
We don’t need to export ideas about freedom and democracy because those ideas are already really popular around the world.
Michael McFaul
Why do some powerful countries become adversaries while others remain enduring allies? Michael McFaul joins Justin Kempf on Democracy Paradox to discuss his book, Autocrats vs. Democrats: China, Russia, America, and the New Global Disorder. Drawing on his experience as a democracy scholar and former US ambassador to Russia, McFaul explores how political systems and individual leaders shape the exercise of power. Their conversation examines China’s and Russia’s different ambitions, the threat Ukraine’s democratic development poses to Vladimir Putin, and how democratic erosion at home affects America’s influence abroad.
Michael McFaul is the Ken Olivier and Angela Nomellini Professor of International Studies in Political Science, Senior Fellow at the Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies, and the Peter and Helen Bing Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution, all at Stanford University. He is the author of From Cold War to Hot Peace: An American Ambassador in Putin’s Russia and Autocrats vs. Democrats: China, Russia, America, and the New Global Disorder.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- The Cocktail of Power and Dictatorship - 3:33
- Shades of Gray - 14:50
- Rupture - 28:06
- Democracy at Home - 39:03
Links
Learn more about Michael McFaul.
Learn more about his book Autocrats vs. Democrats: China, Russia, America, and the New Global Disorder (Harper Collins).
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute
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Email comments or questions to [email protected]
Ian Shapiro Says the Left's "Preemptive Capitulation" to Neoliberalism Paved the Way for Populism
If we want people to support democratic capitalism, it has to be a kind of democratic capitalism that delivers for most people, and we haven't had that.Ian ShapiroWhat went wrong after the Cold War – and …
Notes de l’épisode
If we want people to support democratic capitalism, it has to be a kind of democratic capitalism that delivers for most people, and we haven't had that.
Ian Shapiro
What went wrong after the Cold War – and what can democracies learn from the opportunities they missed? Ian Shapiro, Sterling Professor of Political Science and Global Affairs at Yale University and author of After the Fall: From the End of History to the Crisis of Democracy, How Politicians Broke Our World, joins Democracy Paradox to examine how political choices helped shape today’s populist backlash. Shapiro argues that center-left parties too readily accepted the neoliberal economic consensus, leaving many voters economically insecure and politically alienated. He and Justin Kempf also explore what a new economic model might require as democracies confront artificial intelligence, demographic change, immigration, and the transformation of work – and why, despite democracy’s vulnerabilities, Shapiro sees reasons for hope.
Ian Shapiro is the Sterling Professor of Political Science at Yale University. His latest book is After the Fall: From the End of History to the Crisis of Democracy, How Politicians Broke Our World.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- The Left's Preemptive Capitulation - 2:21
- A Dollar Short, a Day Late - 14:52
- Right on Politics, Wrong on Math - 25:19
- The Next Turning Point - 39:38
LinksLearn more about Ian Shapiro.
Learn more about his book After the Fall: From the End of History to the Crisis of Democracy, How Politicians Broke Our World (Basic Books).
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Apes of the State created all Music
Email comments or questions to [email protected]
Noam Lupu Says Support for Democracy Is Growing in the Americas, But Not Necessarily Liberal Democracy
The irony of democratic backsliding is a lot of these things are pitched to people and understood by people as actually pro-democratic.Noam LupuSupport for democracy is rising across the Americas after more …
Notes de l’épisode
The irony of democratic backsliding is a lot of these things are pitched to people and understood by people as actually pro-democratic.
Noam Lupu
Support for democracy is rising across the Americas after more than a decade of decline, but what kind of democracy do citizens actually want? Noam Lupu, director of Vanderbilt University’s Center for Global Democracy and LAPOP Lab, joins Justin Kempf to discuss findings from the latest AmericasBarometer and Pulse of Democracy. They explore why better economic and security conditions may be strengthening democratic support, even as distrust of political institutions persists; how citizens can embrace democracy while supporting illiberal leaders; and what attitudes toward representation, inequality, generational change, and political polarization reveal about the future of democracy across the region.
Noam Lupu is the Gertrude Conaway Vanderbilt Professor of Political Science at Vanderbilt University and Director of the Center for Global Democracy and LAPOP Lab.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- Is Democracy Delivering? - 2:36
- The Illiberal Bargain - 9:56
- The Outliers: Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay - 19:56
- Whose Democracy Is It? - 29:31
Links
Learn more about Noam Lupu.
Learn more about the AmericasBarometer survey.
Read the Pulse of Democracy 2026 report.
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Apes of the State created all Music
Email comments or questions to [email protected]
Alexander Cooley and Alexander Dukalskis Fear Autocracies Are Hijacking the International Order
There was an assumption that influence could only run one direction... but influence could run the other direction as well.Alexander CooleyAuthoritarian governments are exercising growing influence not only …
Notes de l’épisode
There was an assumption that influence could only run one direction... but influence could run the other direction as well.
Alexander Cooley
Authoritarian governments are exercising growing influence not only within their own borders but across the institutions, markets, and organizations that shape global life. Alexander Cooley and Alexander Dukalskis, authors of Dictating the Agenda: The Authoritarian Resurgence in World Politics, join Justin Kempf to examine how authoritarian states have learned to reshape the liberal international order for illiberal ends. They discuss cooperation among autocracies, the growing economic power behind authoritarian influence, pressure on corporations and universities, and what these changes mean for liberalism, democracy, and the future of global governance.
Alexander Cooley is the Claire Tow Professor of Political Science and Vice Provost for Research and Academic Centers at Barnard College, Columbia University. Alexander Dukalskis associate professor in the School of Politics & International Relations at University College Dublin. They are the authors of the recent book Dictating the Agenda: The Authoritarian Resurgence in World Politics.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- Liberalism, Not Democracy - 3:18
- The Autocratic Axis - 15:01
- Profits Over Principles - 28:20
- What Comes After Liberalism? - 38:47
Links
Learn more about Alexander Cooley.
Learn more about Alexander Dukalskis.
Learn more about their book Dictating the Agenda: The Authoritarian Resurgence in World Politics (Oxford University Press, 2026)
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute
Apes of the State created all Music
Email comments or questions to [email protected]
Suzanne Mettler Says the Rural-Urban Divide Threatens American Democracy
We barely disagree with each other, but we can't stand one another's party. Suzanne MettlerSuzanne Mettler is the John L. Senior Professor of American Institutions at Cornell University. She is the …
Notes de l’épisode
We barely disagree with each other, but we can't stand one another's party.
Suzanne Mettler
Suzanne Mettler is the John L. Senior Professor of American Institutions at Cornell University. She is the coauthor of Four Threats with Robert Lieberman and Rural Versus Urban: The Growing Divide that Threatens Democracy coauthored with Trevor Brown.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- From a 2-Point Gap to a 20-Point Chasm - 3:10
- The NAFTA Betrayal Democrats Never Escaped - 15:01
- Why Are You Kowtowing to These Elites? - 23:31
- Power Without Prosperity - 34:35
Links
Read the book Rural Versus Urban: The Growing Divide That Threatens Democracy
Learn more about Suzanne Mettler
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute
Apes of the State created all Music
Email comments or questions to [email protected]
Rachel Beatty Riedl Says Economic Inequality Is Fueling Democratic Backsliding
I'm by nature optimistic, but am extremely worried because of the structural moment we live in.Rachel Beatty RiedlPolitical scientist Rachel Beatty Riedl joins host Justin Kempf to examine how extreme …
Notes de l’épisode
I'm by nature optimistic, but am extremely worried because of the structural moment we live in.
Rachel Beatty Riedl
Political scientist Rachel Beatty Riedl joins host Justin Kempf to examine how extreme economic inequality and the growing power of transnational elites have contributed to democratic backsliding. Drawing on experiences from Africa and other third-wave democracies, Riedl explains how concentrated wealth can weaken states, distort political competition, and prevent citizens’ preferences from being represented equally in government.
Rachel Beatty Riedl is a Professor in the Brooks School of Public Policy and in the Department of Government at Cornell University and the Peggy J. Koenig ’78 Director of the Cornell Center on Democracy. She is the coeditor of Global Challenges to Democracy: Comparative Perspectives on Backsliding, Autocracy, and Resilience with Valerie Bunce, Tom Pepinsky, and Ken Roberts and the author of many articles including “Neoliberalism and the Third Wave" in the Journal of Democracy.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- The Third Wave's Broken Bargain - 4:16
- Elites Without Borders - 14:50
- The Reagan Test - 24:35
- The Rocky Road Ahead - 34:26
Links
Learn more about the Cornell Center on Democracy
Read the book Global Challenges to Democracy: Comparative Perspectives on Backsliding, Autocracy, and Resilience
Read her article “Neoliberalism and the Third Wave" in the Journal of Democracy
Learn more about Rachel Beatty Riedl.
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute
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Email comments or questions to [email protected]
Kim Lane Scheppele on Hungary's Narrow Path Back to Democracy
You can only get to the point of restoring democratic institutions if you win the last election with such a huge majority that you really have the public with you as you make radical change.Kim Lane Scheppele …
Notes de l’épisode
You can only get to the point of restoring democratic institutions if you win the last election with such a huge majority that you really have the public with you as you make radical change.
Kim Lane Scheppele
Kim Lane Scheppele is the Laurance S. Rockefeller Professor of Sociology and International Affairs in the Princeton School of Public and International Affairs and the University Center for Human Values at Princeton University. Some of her articles include “Autocratic Legalism”, “The Rule of Law and the Frankenstate: Why Government Checklists Do Not Work”, “How Viktor Orbán Wins," and most recently “Can Péter Magyar Restore Hungary's Democracy?”
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- Magyar's Playbook - 3:24
- A Party Without a Party - 18:26
- Breaking the Rules to Save Democracy - 30:48
- Looking to the Future Instead of History - 44:29
Links
Learn more about Kim Lane Scheppele
Read her Journal of Democracy article “Can Péter Magyar Restore Hungary's Democracy?”
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Apes of the State created all Music
Email comments or questions to [email protected]
Jeffrey Kopstein Explains Why Polarization Turns Violent
The question is not whether polarization is dangerous, but the conditions under which it becomes violent.Jeffrey KopsteinJeffrey Kopstein joins the Democracy Paradox to discuss when polarization turns violent …
Notes de l’épisode
The question is not whether polarization is dangerous, but the conditions under which it becomes violent.
Jeffrey Kopstein
Jeffrey Kopstein joins the Democracy Paradox to discuss when polarization turns violent. Drawing on his Journal of Democracy essay “When Polarization Turns Violent” and his book with Stephen Hanson, The Assault on the State, Kopstein explains why affective polarization, struggles over belonging, and the weakening or politicization of state authority can create the conditions for organized political violence. The conversation ranges from Charlottesville to lynching in the American South, pogroms in Eastern Europe, communal violence in India, and the rise of patrimonial leaders who treat the state as personal property rather than an impersonal rule-of-law institution.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- From Disagreement to Hate - 2:55
- Who Owns the Polity? - 13:51
- When the State Steps Aside - 26:32
- The Assault on the State - 36:10
Links:
Learn more about Jeffrey Kopstein.
Read his Journal of Democracy article "When Polarization Turns Violent.”
Learn more about his co-authored book The Assault on the State.
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Apes of the State created all Music
Email comments or questions to [email protected]
Pepper Culpepper Says Good Populism Can Save Democracy
We think the next ten years are going to be anti-billionaire.Pepper CulpepperPepper Culpepper joins the Democracy Paradox to discuss when populism can strengthen democracy. Drawing on his Journal of Democracy …
Notes de l’épisode
We think the next ten years are going to be anti-billionaire.
Pepper Culpepper
Pepper Culpepper joins the Democracy Paradox to discuss when populism can strengthen democracy. Drawing on his Journal of Democracy article “When Populism Can Be Good” and his book with Taeku Lee, Billionaire Backlash, Culpepper argues that corporate scandals can channel public anger toward billionaires and large corporations in ways that reinforce democratic accountability. The conversation explores good and bad populism, economic unfairness, AI, regulation, and whether democratic governments can still stand up to concentrated corporate power.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- Good Populism - 3:05
- Latent Opinion - 12:33
- The Next Progressive Era - 20:42
- Regulation vs. Abundance - 35:48
Links
Learn more about Pepper Culpepper.
Learn more about his Journal of Democracy article “When Populism Can Be Good.”
Learn more about his book Billionaire Backlash: The Age of Corporate Scandal and How It Could Save Democracy (Bloomsbury, 2026).
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Apes of the State created all Music
Email comments or questions to [email protected]
Dan Slater Says Authoritarian Ideologies Still Matter
We think of World War II as this global democratizing event, but what it really did was strengthen left-wing authoritarianism.Dan SlaterDan Slater is the James Orin Murfin Professor of Political Science and the …
Notes de l’épisode
We think of World War II as this global democratizing event, but what it really did was strengthen left-wing authoritarianism.
Dan Slater
Dan Slater is the James Orin Murfin Professor of Political Science and the Director of the Center of Emerging Democracies at the University of Michigan. He is the coauthor (with Joseph Wong) of the book From Development to Democracy: The Transformations of Modern Asia. More recently, he authored the article "The Authoritarian Origins of the Third Wave" in the Journal of Democracy.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- Why Scholars Stopped Taking Ideology Seriously - 3:02
- The Difference Between Authoritarian Left and Right - 5:31
- Why the Third Wave Narrative Gets the History Wrong - 20:45
- Can Democracy Survive Ideological Extremes - 33:43
Links
Learn more about Dan Slater.
Read his article in the Journal of Democracy, "The Authoritarian Origins of the Third Wave."
Learn more about the Center for Emerging Democracies.
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Apes of the State created all Music
Email comments or questions to [email protected]
Guillermo Trejo on Accountability, Impunity, and the Fate of New Democracies
What happens when the violent state forged under autocracy survives into democracy?Guillermo TrejoIn this episode of The Democracy Paradox, Kellogg faculty fellow Guillermo Trejo discusses his new book …
Notes de l’épisode
What happens when the violent state forged under autocracy survives into democracy?
Guillermo Trejo
In this episode of The Democracy Paradox, Kellogg faculty fellow Guillermo Trejo discusses his new book, Accountability Shock, coauthored with Lucía Tiscornia and Juan Albarracín. Trejo explains how authoritarian security forces can survive democratic transitions and fuel organized crime, and why truth commissions, prosecutions, and institutional reforms are essential tools for preventing violence and building more durable democracies.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- What Is the State? - 3:23
- From Order to Crime - 9:12
- The Accountability Shock - 19:10
- Beyond Elections - 37:20
Links
Learn more about Guillermo Trejo.
Learn more about his book Accountability Shock: Why Transitional Justice Prevents Criminal Wars in New Democracies (Cambridge University Press, 2026)
Learn more about the Notre Dame Violence and Transitional Justice Lab.
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Apes of the State created all Music
Email comments or questions to [email protected]
Kenneth Roberts Says the Left Pays a Steep Price for Breaking with Democracy
The left pays a very steep price when they break with democratic norms and procedures.Kenneth RobertsKenneth Roberts is the Richard J. Schwartz Professor of Government at Cornell University. He is the coauthor …
Notes de l’épisode
The left pays a very steep price when they break with democratic norms and procedures.
Kenneth Roberts
Kenneth Roberts is the Richard J. Schwartz Professor of Government at Cornell University. He is the coauthor (with Santiago Anria) of Polarization and Democracy in Latin America: Legacies of the Left Turn.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- The Origins of the Left Turn - 3:21
- Polarization and Its Discontents - 13:18
- The Autocratic Temptation - 21:40
- Populism and the Left's Democratic Reckoning - 37:24
LinksLearn more about Kenneth Roberts
Read his book Polarization and Democracy in Latin America: Legacies of the Left Turn
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Register for the 2026 Global Democracy Conference at the University of Notre Dame.
Apes of the State created all Music
Email comments or questions to [email protected]
Sheri Berman Says the Democratic Recession Was Not a Surprise
If democracy wants to regain the upper hand, it has to not only do a better job than the other guys, but in fact, a good job.Sheri BermanThis episode features a conversation with political scientist Sheri …
Notes de l’épisode
If democracy wants to regain the upper hand, it has to not only do a better job than the other guys, but in fact, a good job.
Sheri Berman
This episode features a conversation with political scientist Sheri Berman on why today’s global "democratic recession" was actually predictable. Drawing from her deep historical research, Berman argues that every democratic wave eventually faces an "undertow," especially when the social and economic foundations of stability begin to fail. From the cautionary lessons of Weimar Germany to the modern rise of partisan "bubbles," this episode explores what we have forgotten about democratic stability and what it will take to secure its future.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- What We Forgot About Democracy - 3:39
- The Social Foundations of Democracy - 13:55
- Inequality, Insecurity, and Policy - 28:16
- Universities, Cruise Control, and the Purpose of Democracy - 40:55
Links
Learn more about Sheri Berman.
Read her article "Democracy's Troubles Should Be No Surprise" in the Journal of Democracy.
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Register for the 2026 Global Democracy Conference at the University of Notre Dame.
Apes of the State created all Music
Email comments or questions to [email protected]
Christopher Walker Revisits Sharp Power
Sharp power seeks to exploit the openness of free societies because their institutions are open.Christopher WalkerChristopher Walker, a leading expert on authoritarian influence, returns to the origins of the …
Notes de l’épisode
Sharp power seeks to exploit the openness of free societies because their institutions are open.
Christopher Walker
Christopher Walker, a leading expert on authoritarian influence, returns to the origins of the concept of "sharp power," a term he helped develop to distinguish coercive and manipulative forms of influence from Joseph Nye’s idea of soft power. While soft power relies on attraction and persuasion, Walker explains that sharp power instead works by penetrating democratic institutions, restricting debate, and shaping narratives in ways that undermine openness. The conversation situates this concept within a broader shift in global politics, where expectations of democratic expansion after the Cold War have given way to a more contested and authoritarian-influenced world.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- The Origins of Sharp Power - 2:51
- How Sharp Power Works - 11:29
- Do Democracies Use Sharp Power? 21:15
- Sharp Power in the Current Geopolitical Moment - 30:32
Links
Learn more about Christopher Walker.
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Register for the 2026 Global Democracy Conference at the University of Notre Dame.
Apes of the State created all Music
Email comments or questions to [email protected]
Hugo Drochon Says Elites Are Inevitable
I don't think populism is necessarily a challenge to democracy. I think it's part and parcel of it.Hugo DrochonHugo Drochon joins The Democracy Paradox to explore why elites are an unavoidable part of …
Notes de l’épisode
I don't think populism is necessarily a challenge to democracy. I think it's part and parcel of it.
Hugo Drochon
Hugo Drochon joins The Democracy Paradox to explore why elites are an unavoidable part of democracy – and why that may not be a bad thing. Drawing on classical elite theory, he explains how democratic systems depend on the constant circulation of competing elites and why outsider movements, including populism, can play a vital role in keeping democracy responsive. The conversation challenges conventional views by reframing democracy as an ongoing, dynamic struggle rather than a fixed set of institutions.
Hugo Drochon is an Associate Professor in Political Theory at the University of Nottingham and the author of a new book titled Elites and Democracy.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- Nobody Wants to be an Elite - 3:52
- Lions, Foxes, and the Circulation of Elites - 15:34
- Is Populism a Threat to Democracy? - 31:37
- The Role of Ordinary Citizens - 41:12
Links
Learn more about Hugo Drochon.
Learn more about his upcoming book Elites and Democracy (Princeton University Press)
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Register for the 2026 Global Democracy Conference at the University of Notre Dame.
Apes of the State created all Music
Email comments or questions to [email protected]
Milan Svolik Asks: Do Voters Really Support Democracy?
We are badly mismeasuring whether and how much people care about democracy.Milan SvolikIn this episode of the Democracy Paradox, host Justin Kempf speaks with political scientist Milan Svolik, the Elizabeth S …
Notes de l’épisode
We are badly mismeasuring whether and how much people care about democracy.
Milan Svolik
In this episode of the Democracy Paradox, host Justin Kempf speaks with political scientist Milan Svolik, the Elizabeth S. & A. Varick Stout Professor of Political Science at Yale University and author of The Politics of Authoritarian Rule. Their conversation explores one of the central puzzles in contemporary democracy: why citizens who say they strongly support democracy sometimes vote for politicians who undermine it. Drawing on Svolik’s experimental research, the discussion examines how traditional survey questions often overestimate democratic commitment and why understanding voters’ real trade-offs offers a more accurate picture.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- Measuring What Voters Really Believe - 3:33
- Militant Democracy and the Risks of Overcorrection - 16:51
- The Left, the Right, and Who Defends Democracy - 37:18
- The Voter as Democracy's Last Gatekeeper - 52:13
Links
Learn more about Milan Svolik.
Learn more about his book The Politics of Authoritarian Rule (Cambridge University Press)
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Register for the 2026 Global Democracy Conference at the University of Notre Dame.
Apes of the State created all Music
Email questions or comments to [email protected]
Minxin Pei Warns China Has Descended into Totalitarianism
The paradox of dictatorship is that dictatorships do well when they do not have a genuine dictator.Minxin PeiIn this episode of Democracy Paradox, Justin Kempf speaks with China scholar Minxin Pei about his …
Notes de l’épisode
The paradox of dictatorship is that dictatorships do well when they do not have a genuine dictator.
Minxin Pei
In this episode of Democracy Paradox, Justin Kempf speaks with China scholar Minxin Pei about his book The Broken China Dream: How Reform Revived Totalitarianism and his argument that China under Xi Jinping has shifted from authoritarianism back toward totalitarianism. They explore the missed opportunities for political reform in the 1980s, the party’s post-Tiananmen survival strategy, and how Xi consolidated power through purges, ideological revival, and expanded social control. The conversation also reflects on what China’s trajectory reveals about the strengths – and fragility – of democracy itself.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- China's Missed Opening - 4:22
- The Return of Control - 21:03
- The Making of a Strongman 38:16
- Lessons for Democracy - 50:41
Links
Learn more about Minxin Pei.
Learn more about his new book The Broken China Dream: How Reform Revived Totalitarianism.
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Register for the Global Democracy Conference
Erica Frantz says Personalist Parties are Democracy's Latest Threat
Traditional programmatic parties serve as a critical guardrail for democracy. Erica FrantzIn this episode, Justin Kempf speaks with Erica Frantz about her book The Origins of Elected Strongmen and the rise of …
Notes de l’épisode
Traditional programmatic parties serve as a critical guardrail for democracy.
Erica Frantz
In this episode, Justin Kempf speaks with Erica Frantz about her book The Origins of Elected Strongmen and the rise of personalist leaders in democracies. Frantz explains how leader-dominated political parties – more than populist rhetoric alone – can erode democratic institutions from within, drawing on cases from El Salvador to France. The conversation explores why voters support such leaders and what this trend means for the future of democracy worldwide.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- Personalism Defined - 2:50
- Personalism's Appeal - 14:19
- Threat to Democracy - 19:38
- Pushing the Boundaries of the Theory - 33:13
Links
Learn more about Erica Frantz.
Learn more about her coauthored book The Origins of Elected Strongmen: How Personalist Parties Destroy Democracy from Within.
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Register for the Global Democracy Conference
Apes of the State created all Music
Javier Pérez Sandoval Reveals Democracy’s Hidden Vulnerability: The Hollowing of the State
By dismantling certain capacities today, you're making the democratic choices of tomorrow harder.Javier Pérez SandovalIn this episode, Javier Pérez Sandoval discusses his Journal of Democracy essay …
Notes de l’épisode
By dismantling certain capacities today, you're making the democratic choices of tomorrow harder.
Javier Pérez Sandoval
In this episode, Javier Pérez Sandoval discusses his Journal of Democracy essay, coauthored with Andrés Mejía Acosta, on why populist leaders often “hollow out” the state. Moving beyond familiar debates about executive aggrandizement and democratic backsliding, Pérez Sandoval argues that democracy depends on the state’s capacity to deliver essential public goods – from health and education to security, justice, and credible elections. Drawing on examples from Mexico and Argentina, he explains how both left- and right-wing populists may weaken institutions through austerity, politicization, and institutional restructuring, often prioritizing short-term political gains over long-term democratic resilience. The conversation explores how state erosion can constrain future democratic choices, undermine public trust, and create a vicious cycle that leaves democracy structurally weakened from within.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- Reducing State Capacity - 3:47
- Core Functions of the State - 12:23
- Is Reducing State Capacity Antidemocratic? 21:13
- Does the Public Want to Hollow Out the State? 33:31
Links
Learn more about Javier Pérez Sandoval.
Read the Journal of Democracy essay “Why Populists Hollow Out Their States.”
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Kate Baldwin Explains Why Christianity Fights for Democracy in Africa
The group of people who have an interest in defending liberal democracy might be broader than many academics, and maybe even liberals, would have shown.Kate BaldwinThis episode features Yale political scientist …
Notes de l’épisode
The group of people who have an interest in defending liberal democracy might be broader than many academics, and maybe even liberals, would have shown.
Kate Baldwin
This episode features Yale political scientist Kate Baldwin in a conversation about her book Faith in Democracy, which challenges the assumption that religion is inherently hostile to democratic governance. Drawing on research from sub-Saharan Africa, Baldwin explains how Christian churches have often emerged as defenders of liberal democracy – not because of ideological commitments, but because democratic institutions protect church autonomy and social service work from state overreach. The conversation explores when and why churches mobilize against democratic backsliding, how institutional incentives shape political behavior, and what this reveals about the broader coalition of actors invested in sustaining democracy.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- Why Churches Defend Democracy - 3:20
- Role of Education - 14:09
- Why Churches Choose Autocracy - 20:09
- Leadership - 27:00
Links
Learn more about Kate Baldwin.
Learn more about her book Faith in Democracy: The Logic of Church Advocacy for Liberal Democratic Institutions in Africa.
Check out "Democracy's Devout Defenders" in the Journal of Democracy.
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Natalie Wenzell Letsa Describes the Autocratic Voter
You can take a cognitive bias so far down the road that you can live in an objectively very clear dictatorship and sit there and say, 'I live in a democracy.'Natalie Wenzell LetsaIn this episode of …
Notes de l’épisode
You can take a cognitive bias so far down the road that you can live in an objectively very clear dictatorship and sit there and say, 'I live in a democracy.'
Natalie Wenzell Letsa
In this episode of The Democracy Paradox, host Justin Kempf speaks with political scientist Natalie Wenzell Letsa about why some voters genuinely support ruling parties in electoral autocracies. Drawing on her book The Autocratic Voter and fieldwork in Cameroon, Letsa explains how partisan identities form under dictatorship and what these dynamics reveal about democracy, polarization, and political behavior more broadly.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- What is an Electoral Autocracy - 3:20
- Voters in an Autocracy - 12:55
- Opposition in an Autocracy - 21:04
- Parallels to Democracies - 30:31
Links
Learn more about Natalie Wenzell Letsa.
Learn more about her book The Autocratic Voter: Partisanship and Political Socialization Under Dictatorship.
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Russell Muirhead Warns Ungoverning Threatens Democracy
The heart of ungoverning is going after expertise - eradicating expertise - and replacing it with the power of the great ruler.Russ MuirheadRussell Muirhead is the Robert Clements Professor of Democracy and …
Notes de l’épisode
The heart of ungoverning is going after expertise - eradicating expertise - and replacing it with the power of the great ruler.
Russ Muirhead
Russell Muirhead is the Robert Clements Professor of Democracy and Politics and the co-director of the Political Economy Project at Dartmouth University. He's also the co-author, with Nancy Rosenblum, of Ungoverning: The Attack on the Administrative State and the Politics of Chaos.
Patrick McQuestion joins to help introduce the episode. Patrick is a PhD student in his fourth year at the University of Notre Dame studying political science and peace studies, and also the co-host of the Global Stage Podcast.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- What is Ungoverning? 9:00
- The Fourth Branch - 32:29
- Other Examples of Ungoverning 36:28
- Ungoverning and Democracy - 46:59
Links:
Learn more about Russell Muirhead
Learn more about his book Ungoverning: The Attack on the Administrative State and the Politics of Chaos
Learn more about Patrick McQuestion
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Luis Schiumerini on Incumbency Bias
Decreasing incumbent capacity and affective polarization are making incumbency salient, but also more of a curse than a blessing.Luis SchiumeriniIn this episode of The Democracy Paradox, host Justin Kempf …
Notes de l’épisode
Decreasing incumbent capacity and affective polarization are making incumbency salient, but also more of a curse than a blessing.
Luis Schiumerini
In this episode of The Democracy Paradox, host Justin Kempf speaks with Notre Dame political scientist Luis Schiumerini about his new book Incumbency Bias: Why Political Office is a Blessing and a Curse in Latin America. Schiumerini challenges common assumptions about incumbents, demonstrating that holding office can create systematic advantages – or disadvantages – depending on the institutional context. Before the conversation begins, Kellogg Doctoral Student Affiliate Tomás Gianibelli joins Kempf to share his experience working with Schiumerini and to explain why this research reshapes how scholars think about democracy.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- What is Incumbency Bias - 6:06
- Incumbency Disadvantage on the Rise - 23:58
- Term Limits - 31:39
- Implications for Democracy - 36:52
Links:
Learn more about Luis Schiumerini
Learn more about his book Incumbency Bias: Why Political Office is a Blessing and a Curse in Latin America
Learn more about Tomás Gianibelli
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Adam Przeworski Asks Who Decides What is Democratic
The biggest disappointment is that democracies do not reduce social and economic inequality.Adam PrzeworskiIn this episode, host Justin Kempf talks with political scientist Adam Przeworski about what truly …
Notes de l’épisode
The biggest disappointment is that democracies do not reduce social and economic inequality.
Adam Przeworski
In this episode, host Justin Kempf talks with political scientist Adam Przeworski about what truly defines democracy today. Przeworski explains why he sees no global democratic crisis, defends a minimalist view centered on free and fair elections, and reflects on why democracies struggle to reduce inequality. He also discusses why citizens sometimes tolerate democratic erosion and how modern autocracies maintain support, offering a clear and concise perspective on democracy’s strengths and limits. Alejandro González Ruiz, cohost of the Kellogg Institute's Global Stage podcast, joins to help introduce the episode.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- Minimal Democracy and Democratic Crisis - 9:44
- Economic Inequality and Democracy - 22:37
- Autocracy and Popular Support - 31:42
- Democratic Backsliding - 36:09
Links
Learn more about Adam Przeworski.
Learn more about his book Crises of Democracy (Cambridge University Press, 2019).
Learn more about Alejandro González Ruiz.
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Killian Clarke Warns Counterrevolution is a Threat to Nascent Democracies
For democratic revolutions to survive counterrevolution, they have to make certain choices that can undermine the quality of their democracy.Killian ClarkePolitical scientist Killian Clarke joins The Democracy …
Notes de l’épisode
For democratic revolutions to survive counterrevolution, they have to make certain choices that can undermine the quality of their democracy.
Killian Clarke
Political scientist Killian Clarke joins The Democracy Paradox to discuss his new book, Return of Tyranny: Why Counterrevolutions Emerge and Succeed. He explains why democratic revolutions are especially vulnerable to reversal, how elites and citizens can align in counterrevolutionary movements, and what these dynamics reveal about democracy’s fragility and endurance today. Amanda Waterhouse, a postdoctoral democracy researcher at the Kellogg Institute also joins to help introduce the episode.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- Counterrevolutions as Mass Movements - 9:59
- Prevalence and Success of Counterrevolution - 19:08
- Is Counterrevolution Always Bad? - 33:22
- Why Some Revolutionaries Join the Counterrevolution - 41:12
Links
Learn more about Amanda Waterhouse.
Learn more about Killian Clarke.
Learn more about Clarke's book Return of Tyranny: Why Counterrevolutions Emerge and Succeed (Cambridge University Press, 2025)
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Amel Ahmed Says the Regime Question Has Returned
The regime question at its core is about how we should govern ourselves... This is an enduring question that is essential to democratic politics.Amel AhmedThis episode begins with host Justin Kempf and Javier …
Notes de l’épisode
The regime question at its core is about how we should govern ourselves... This is an enduring question that is essential to democratic politics.
Amel Ahmed
This episode begins with host Justin Kempf and Javier Pérez Sandoval setting the stage for a deep dive into the “regime question,” highlighting its significance in democratic theory and contemporary politics. Their introductory discussion explores foundational divides in political systems and frames the questions that will be pursued, particularly the tensions between institutional arrangements and party cleavages. The heart of the episode follows as Kempf interviews Amel Ahmed, who draws on her comparative research to examine historical battles over parliamentary power, suffrage, and executive authority in the United Kingdom, United States, and Germany. Ahmed connects these cases to present-day concerns about legislative dysfunction and polarization, demonstrating that ongoing contestation over the rules of democracy is both persistent and essential to democratic governance.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Amel Ahmed is an assistant professor at the University of Massachusetts Amherst and the author of the book The Regime Question: Foundations of Democratic Governance in Europe and the United States.
Key Highlights
- Introduction - 0:20
- What is the Regime Question - 8:42
- Electoral Authoritarianism - 25:05
- Resolving the Regime Question - 36:03
- Implications for Democracy - 44:47
Links
Learn more about Javier Pérez Sandoval
Learn more about Amel Ahmed
Learn more about her book, The Regime Question: Foundations of Democratic Governance in Europe and the United States
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute
Tom Carothers Says We Misunderstand Democratic Backsliding
After an introductory conversation with Kellogg Faculty Fellow Marc Jacob, Democracy Paradox host Justin Kempf explores the dynamics of global democracy with renowned expert Thomas Carothers. Carothers, the …
Notes de l’épisode
After an introductory conversation with Kellogg Faculty Fellow Marc Jacob, Democracy Paradox host Justin Kempf explores the dynamics of global democracy with renowned expert Thomas Carothers. Carothers, the director of the Carnegie Endowment's Democracy, Conflict, and Governance Program, shares his deep knowledge and firsthand experiences in democracy promotion, focusing on the importance of coalition-building, inclusive leadership, and long-term commitment in sustaining democratic movements. Drawing from case studies in Latin America, particularly Chile and Brazil, he provides thoughtful reflections on the challenges and successes of political activism. This conversation offers insights for scholars, policymakers, and activists dedicated to advancing resilient democratic institutions worldwide.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Read the full transcript here.
Tom Carothers is the Director of the Democracy Conflict and Governance Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. He's the author of numerous books and articles. Some of his most recent articles and reports include “Misunderstanding Democratic Backsliding,” “Lessons about Backsliding and Resistance,” and “Understanding and Responding to Global Democratic Backsliding.”
Chapters
- Introduction with Marc Jacob - 0:20
- Explanations for Backsliding - 8:40
- Role of Institutions - 24:28
- Polarization - 37:31
- Democratic Hardball - 39:24
Links:
Learn more about Marc Jacob.
Learn more about Thomas Carothers.
Learn more about the Democracy, Conflict, and Governance Program of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Javier Corrales on Intentional Polarization
Javier Corrales, professor of political science at Amherst College, discusses his recent research on democratic backsliding and intentional polarization. The discussion explores how leaders employ extremist …
Notes de l’épisode
Javier Corrales, professor of political science at Amherst College, discusses his recent research on democratic backsliding and intentional polarization. The discussion explores how leaders employ extremist policies and ideological rhetoric to consolidate executive power, drawing comparisons between Venezuela, the United States, and other global contexts. An introductory conversation with Kellogg Visiting Fellow Henry Moncrieff offers a nuanced look at opposition strategies and the complex factors shaping democratic resilience and decline.
Read the transcript here.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Javier Corrales is Dwight W. Morrow 1895 professor of Political Science at Amherst College in Amherst, Massachusetts. He is the author of the book Autocracy Rising: How Venezuela Transitioned to Authoritarianism as well as numerous scholarly articles. His most recent article (coauthored with Ricardo José Salas Díaz) is "Intentional Polarization: How Policy Extremism and Ideological Overuse Promote Democratic Backsliding" published in Democratization.
Chapters
- Introduction with Henry Moncrieff 0:20
- Leaders Drive Polarization 5:48
- Radicalization 15:43
- Opposition Response 26:32
- Role of the Public - 37:29
Learn more about Javier Corrales.
Learn more about Henry Moncrieff.
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Susan Stokes on Democratic Backsliders
In this episode, Justin interviews Susan Stokes, the Tiffany and Margaret Blake Distinguished Service Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago and Director of the Chicago Center on Democracy …
Notes de l’épisode
In this episode, Justin interviews Susan Stokes, the Tiffany and Margaret Blake Distinguished Service Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago and Director of the Chicago Center on Democracy. They discuss her new book The Backsliders, which explains how economic inequality and political polarization create conditions that allow leaders to undermine democratic institutions. She explores the roles of populism, voter behavior, and institutional erosion in democratic backsliding worldwide.
Read the transcript here.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute at the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.
Chapters
- Introduction - 0:20
- Leadership - 3:51
- Economic Inequality - 6:35
- Polarization - 19:35
- Populism - 27:27
Key Links
Learn more about Susan Stokes.
Backsliders: Why Leaders Undermine their Own Democracies
Victoria Murillo - The Social Underpinnings of Political Discontent in Latin America - September 23rd, 12:30pm - 2:00pm Central Time. If you can't make it, click here to watch the video!
Check out this year's visiting fellows to the Kellogg Institute here.
The Last Episode. Elizabeth Saunders on How Democracies Wage War and Make Peace
We've often compared democratic national security and autocratic security making in terms of autocratic elites and democratic voters. My argument is not that all democracies are the same, but I do think we …
Notes de l’épisode
We've often compared democratic national security and autocratic security making in terms of autocratic elites and democratic voters. My argument is not that all democracies are the same, but I do think we ought to be thinking about autocratic elites and democratic elites and voters.
Elizabeth Saunders
Proudly sponsored by the Kellogg Institute for International Studies. Learn more at https://kellogg.nd.eduProudly sponsored by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Learn more at https://carnegieendowment.org
A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.
Elizabeth Saunders is a Professor of Political Science at Columbia University as well as a non-resident senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. She is also an editor of The Good Authority Blog formerly known as The Monkey Cage Blog. Her most recent book is The Insiders’ Game: How Elites Make War and Peace.
Key Highlights- Introduction - 0:20
- How Foreign Policy Works - 3:30
- Politics at the Water's Edge - 18:13
- Parties and Foreign Policy - 27:09
- Contemporary Politics - 41:28
Key Links
The Insiders’ Game: How Elites Make War and Peace by Elizabeth Saunders
Learn more about Elizabeth Saunders
Democracy Paradox Podcast
Grading Biden’s Foreign Policy with Alexander Ward
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