Diabolical Lies
- Épisodes
- 64
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- toutes les deux semaines
- Dernier épisode
- 1 Nov 2026
À propos du podcast
Smart. Sane. Unbearable.
Épisodes 64
Is Rape a Crime?
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.comThis episode was named for Michelle Bowdler’s award-winning memoir, Is Rape a Crime?Omnibus content warning for this …
Notes de l’épisode
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.comThis episode was named for Michelle Bowdler’s award-winning memoir, Is Rape a Crime?
Omnibus content warning for this episode: We talk about the history of rape and sexual assault, with some detailed descriptions of past cases.
When student journalists published a story in September about a reported gang rape at Cornell University, it became national news.
The particular details of the lawsuit—the screenshots of the group chat, Jane Doe’s texts with the men afterward, and the consequences (or lack thereof) for the fraternity men involved—spawned a thinkpiece bonanza attempting to determine what, specifically, went wrong here. What, pray tell, is to blame for something so horrid?
The darker half of the internet had a different question: Was this even a gang rape? The behavior was abhorrent, sure, of course, but rape?
Maybe it was the ketamine and alcohol. Maybe it was the (seemingly consensual) threesome. Maybe it was the sexual revolution.
But gang rape—particularly in this context—is not a mystery. We need not scour the case file for “what went wrong.” In fact, we’ve known for decades what drives this sort of behavior.
And if we’ve known for decades, why is this a lesson we refuse to learn? What does it mean for every other victim of sexual violence if this event, of all events, is considered a particularly complex gray area?
What does it mean to violate another person if this was not a violation?
Diabolical Lies investigates.
The Breastfeeding vs. Formula Debate, Debunked
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.com
Q&A: Creative Process, Conspiracy Theories, Careers Under Capitalism, & the Cop in Your Head
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.comCaro & Katie discuss your questions about:* Whether the “financial independence, retire early” movement is an effective way …
Notes de l’épisode
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.comCaro & Katie discuss your questions about:
* Whether the “financial independence, retire early” movement is an effective way to Cordyceps-bug (visual below) capitalism for your own freedom or a gateway drug to the life-diminishing tendency to obsess about money
* Why Katie would accept Fox News’s radical Marxist label
* Caro’s Yesteryear experience and why success sometimes feels like failure
* The creative process and whether creating from a place of defensiveness makes for shittier art
* The future of Diabolical Lies if you people continue to tolerate us
* Politically agnostic friends and the expectation that every element of your personal life conforms to your political ideals
* Whether Christianity and feminism are compatible, and if feminism can really be “compatible” with any belief system that evolved under thousands of years of patriarchy
* Conspiracy theories we believe in
* How to feel generally better about your career under capitalism
* The difficulty of “killing the (misogynist, capitalist, etc.) cop in your head” and choosing more fulfilling work that may earn less or no money
* Whether we use PowerPoints to present our outlines to one another and how our research process has evolved from our glorified voice notes
* Neutralizing the male gaze and self-objectification theory
We’ll see paid subscribers again in October for a topical episode that will (probably) be about the never-ending breastfeeding vs. formula culture war.
Nara Smith & the Great Tradwife Exodus
A quick heads-up: Around 1:34:00, we discuss postpartum psychosis, depression, filicide, and the Lindsay Clancy trial (no graphic descriptions). If that’s not something you’re up for today, take care and skip …
Notes de l’épisode
A quick heads-up: Around 1:34:00, we discuss postpartum psychosis, depression, filicide, and the Lindsay Clancy trial (no graphic descriptions). If that’s not something you’re up for today, take care and skip ahead to 1:40:00.
It only felt fitting to wrap up our pre-maternity leave regularly scheduled programming with a conversation that brings our very first episode full circle.
Skeptics of the tradwife shtick have long observed that tradwife influencers aren’t actually exposed to the risks of the conservative, traditional lifestyle they’re aestheticizing, because they—presumably—have access to their own money and, with it, some degree of autonomy and optionality.
This summer, the years-long discourse has finally landed where it started, with the accusation—you actually have a job—being wielded effectively as a defense—yeah, this is a job, why is everyone calling me a tradwife? The result is a discursive ouroboros.
Many fellow Discourse Vultures have perceived Nara Smith and Hannah Neeleman’s disavowal of the tradwife label in recent interviews whilst wearing top-to-bottom denim as proof that this brand of motherhood is no longer in vogue, and that the reality of Smith and Neeleman’s family dynamics (50/50 partnerships, being a CEO) serve as evidence of that shift. The personal is political, as they say, but how effectively does personal experience really serve as a political defense? Can it nullify the ideological associations of powerful aesthetics, when those aesthetics are already central to American culture?
This episode is a close read of three eerily similar themes that appeared across both recent interviews with some ~lite feminist theory~ layered atop them.
THEORY
Of Woman Born by Adrienne Rich (1977), the original source from which the “mothering as experience” and “motherhood as institution” framework was pulled
“A review of Adrienne Rich’s Of Woman Born: Motherhood as Experience and Institution” by Alice Braun (2019)
“Institution of Motherhood” from Encyclopedia of Motherhood, edited by Andrea O’Reilly, Andrea (2010)
“Mothering and Motherhood: Experience, Ideology, and Agency” by Min Jao from Comparative Literature Studies (2019)
“Racism and Patriarchy in the Meaning of Motherhood” by Dorothy E. Roberts from Journal of Gender & Law (1992)
“Filicide in the United States” by Phillip J. Resnick from the National Library of Medicine (2016)
Blue: A History of Postpartum Depression in America by Rachel Louise Moran (2024)
“Age, Race, Class, and Sex: Women Redefining Difference” by Audre Lorde (1984)
CLOSE-READ INTERVIEWS
“Nara Smith: Stop Calling Me a Tradwife” from Call Her Daddy (2026)
“Ballerina Farm is Happy with Her Choices” by Stephanie McNeal from Vulture (2026)
OTHER REFERENCED PRESS HITS
“Tycoon or Tradwife? The Woman Behind Ballerina Farm Makes Her Own Path.” by Julia Moskin for the New York Times (2024)
Alyssa Grenfell, the ex-Mormon YouTuber referenced
“The Un-Trad Rise of Nara Aziza Smith” by Bianca Betancourt for Harper’s Bazaar (2024)
“How Lucky Blue and Nara Aziza Smith Made Viral Internet Fame From Scratch” by Carrie Battan for GQ (2024)
“Meet the queen of the ‘trad wives’ (and her eight children)” by Megan Agnew for The Times (2024)
“Ballerina Farm opens its door to visitors” from ABC News (2026)
“The ‘trad wives’ leaving high-control Christian nationalist communities” from CNN (2026)
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.diabolicalliespod.com/subscribeDoes Hating Influencers Make You a Misogynist?
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How "Abundance" Lost the Left
The Democratic Party was facing an identity crisis when Donald Trump began his second term in January 2025. Just two months later, Democratic media Thinkboiz Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson published …
Notes de l’épisode
The Democratic Party was facing an identity crisis when Donald Trump began his second term in January 2025. Just two months later, Democratic media Thinkboiz Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson published Abundance.
Their theory of the case: We could “solve our problems with supply,” and that to do so, we needed to pursue “a liberalism that builds,” an idea that meant aspiring to “more than redistribution […], more than parceling out the present.” The text of Abundance focuses almost exclusively on examples of government proceduralism and self-defeating obstruction, while at times quoting books like Fully Automated Luxury Communism and even Karl Marx.
There’s just one difference between the productive capacity imagined in Fully Automated Luxury Communism and Abundance: only one of these books sees this vision as compatible with capitalism.
Over the months that followed its publication, an “intra-left” fight emerged between the “populist left” (represented by figures like Bernie Sanders and the DSA) and the “abundance left.” For a while, it looked like Abundance would set the vision for the future of the party. What happened?
Diabolical Lies investigates.
All citations and references can be found at diabolicalliespod.com.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.diabolicalliespod.com/subscribeHow 'The Botox Psyop' Broke Our Brains in the Name of Beauty
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.com
Alex Cooper, Alix Earle, & the Business of Relatability
Alex Cooper is one of the most successful podcast hosts in the country. Alix Earle is one of the most popular TikTok stars in America. The women, who appear to be separated by a single vowel and little else …
Notes de l’épisode
Alex Cooper is one of the most successful podcast hosts in the country.
Alix Earle is one of the most popular TikTok stars in America.
The women, who appear to be separated by a single vowel and little else, have become central to a slow-burning pop culture feud representing two distinct, radically divergent archetypes: the Mean Girl™ and the Girl’s Girl.™
Cooper’s storied past includes a messy, public split with her former Call Her Daddy cohost, Sofia Franklyn, which she parlayed into an enormous deal with Spotify and, later, SiriusXM. Earle’s background is simpler and cleaner, involving a seemingly overnight ascent on TikTok and a Teflon-like immunity to controversy.
Today’s episode is ultimately a story about the manipulation of discourse and how double standards don’t just exist between women and men, but between women who are, for all intents and purposes, functionally identical.
It’s a deep dive into the characters populating the latest girl-on-girl morality play, a spectacle uniquely suited to demonstrate the skill of those seated atop the modern attention capture content creation industry. Enjoy this valiant effort to extract a takeaway other than “wow, maybe the internet really is making all of us stupider.”
“Call Her Daddy’s Alexandra Cooper Made Her Name Talking About Sex. With Her Massive Spotify Deal, She’s Pushing Beyond That” by Eliana Dockterman for Time (2021)
“Daddy Issues: Trouble Behind the Scenes of Alex Cooper’s Unwell Media Empire” by Clara Molot for Vanity Fair (2026)
“Noticing Emily Ratajkowski’s New Essay, Gwyneth Paltrow’s Politics, and Alex Cooper’s Leadership Skills” from Good Noticings (2026)
“Inside Alex Cooper’s Unwell: Tears, Screaming and Employees Looking for the Exit” by Ashley Carman for Bloomberg (2026)
“Alex Cooper, Husband Skip Team Meeting After Behavior Complaints” by Ashley Carman for Bloomberg (2026)
“Alex Cooper Went From Raunchy Podcaster to Gen-Z’s Barbara Walters” by EJ Dickson for Rolling Stone
“The ‘Call Her Daddy’ Feud: What Happened?” by Taylor Lorenz for The New York Times (2020)
Dave Portnoy’s obnoxious video to “Suitman” on the Call Her Daddy Instagram account during the negotiation breakdown
“The truth about Call Her Daddy” on Alex Cooper’s YouTube channel
“After Leaving ‘Call Her Daddy,’ Sofia Franklyn is Back with a New Podcast of Her Own” by Andy Meek for Forbes (2020)
“Dave Portnoy Hates The Way Alix Earle Has Handled The Alex Cooper Controversy,” also known as a 50-year-old man hosting his favorite series, “Tea by the Sea”
Brianna Chickenfry entering the chat
“‘Call Her Daddy’ Host Alex Cooper Launches the Unwell Network, Inks Development Deals with Influencers Alix Earle and Madeline Argy” by Todd Spangler for Variety (2023)
“The Alix Earle Effect” by Véronique Hyland for Elle
“Alix Earle’s ‘Hot Mess’ Podcast Dropped by Alex Cooper’s Unwell Network (EXCLUSIVE)” by Tatiana Siegel for Variety (2025)
“The Art of the Alix Earle Deal” by Sara Ashley O’Brien for The Wall Street Journal (2025)
The first direct shot, fired by Alex Cooper
“Alix Earle is Bringing Your FYP to TV with New Netflix Reality Series” by Melanie Whyte for Tudum, the Netflix site (2026)
“The Conservative Star Who Wants to Host the ‘Call Her Daddy’ of the Right” by Ashley Carman for Bloomberg
You know we’re in some rich pop culture territory when the right-wing reactionary framing almost exactly matches the mainstream framing
“Alex Cooper’s Netflix Problem” by Natalie Korach for Status (2026)
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.diabolicalliespod.com/subscribeHow Reality TV Makes Us All Republicans
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The "Rise" and Fall of the Girlboss
RESTOCK ALERT: Just in time for your summer vacation, the Banned Books tote is back in stock.Alt. title: Katie finally bites off more than she can chew and attempts a nuanced exploration of the Lean In …
Notes de l’épisode
RESTOCK ALERT: Just in time for your summer vacation, the Banned Books tote is back in stock.
Alt. title: Katie finally bites off more than she can chew and attempts a nuanced exploration of the Lean In, Girlboss cultural era.
13 years ago, Sheryl Sandberg published Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead. The following year, Sophia Amoruso published #GIRLBOSS.
The broad understanding of this period was that—for a few solid years—we widely embraced the edicts of “corporate feminism” or “Lean In feminism” or “Girlboss feminism,” so named for a societal shift that saw a recognition and celebration of women’s career ambition as a decidedly positive thing worthy of support and encouragement or, at the very least, a collection of sassy poly-blend T-shirts.
We tried it, and it didn’t work.
…but did we?
Diabolical Lies investigates.
All citations and references can be found at https://www.diabolicalliespod.com.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.diabolicalliespod.com/subscribeHow to Give Birth in America, Pt. 2
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Gen Z Women's New "Anti-Woke Voice"
NEW SWAG ALERT 🚨 The Small Government line is back & better than ever. Get yours here.Katie’s back on her metaphoric “What’s Charlie Kirk up to these days?” editorial grind—checking in with one of the hottest …
Notes de l’épisode
NEW SWAG ALERT 🚨 The Small Government line is back & better than ever. Get yours here.
Katie’s back on her metaphoric “What’s Charlie Kirk up to these days?” editorial grind—checking in with one of the hottest new Gen Z Lady Voices taking the middle-aged men of the center-right by storm.
In this episode, we check in with a writer we haven’t discussed since one of our very first episodes:
Freya India, also known as three Jonathan Haidts in a very hot 26-year-old trenchcoat, just published her first book, Girls®—an excoriation of the modern world and its effects on The Youth (or, more specifically, the pathologies of liberal teen girls, as she often puts it).
To hear India tell it, young girls have been Filtered, Diagnosed, Documented, Disconnected, Detached, and ‘Empowered,’ all thanks to the increasingly rapacious incentive structure of a pyramid-shaped economic system that necessitates a constantly growing consumer base wait, sorry, no. That’s not it. Actually, we’re not really sure why. You know what? It’s not important. Let’s move on.
What Girls® lacks in explanatory mechanisms, it makes up for in solutions: Logging off, finding God, and starting a family.
The ideological project underway here should be obvious to anyone whose brain hasn’t been marinated in a dutch oven full of expired bath salts, so why has this book been endorsed by a gaggle of high-profile, putatively left-wing men?
Diabolical Lies investigates.
All citations and references can be found at www.diabolicalliespod.com.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.diabolicalliespod.com/subscribeWho's Afraid of Hasan Piker?
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The Caro Episode
Order Yesteryear if you like nice things, have good taste, or don’t want Katie to show up in the middle of the night at your house with a strongly worded remonstration.What does it feel like to spend 10 years …
Notes de l’épisode
Order Yesteryear if you like nice things, have good taste, or don’t want Katie to show up in the middle of the night at your house with a strongly worded remonstration.
What does it feel like to spend 10 years of your life pursuing an uncertain dream when the chances of breakthrough success are one in a million?
What does it feel like to—finally, at long last—be “the one”?
Caro Claire Burke, one-half of your favorite podcast, is publishing her debut novel this Tuesday, April 7. Yesteryear is mouthy, thrilling, important, ambitious, and, as one of my favorite reviews said, “moves like a freight train.”
Sound like anyone else you know?
Today, I finally get the opportunity to talk to caro claire burke about:
* whether publishing your debut novel is a dream come true or a nightmare
* who she was before she wrote Yesteryear
* her seemingly endless years writing clickbait for a paycheck in the content coal mines of various aggregators
* how she felt when we met 🥰
* how I felt when we met 👹
* the psychological experience of feeling like everyone’s looking at you (Professionally™️) and knowing the precise dates and times when your life’s work will be dissected for sport in public lol
* to what extent it’s fair to infer someone’s politics from their fiction (a la this piece)
* her Official Stance on separating the art from the artist (compelling tbh)
* a spoiler-frenzied discussion of the Next Great American Novel
* and a very personal, very special update for Caro
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.diabolicalliespod.com/subscribeHow 'Love Story'—and the Kennedys—Fooled America
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Jeffrey Epstein & the Ordinary Misogyny of "Extraordinary" Men
Some quick housekeeping to start this lovely Sunday:If you’ve already pre-ordered Caro’s debut novel Yesteryear, or wish to do so now, Knopf wants to thank you. They’re sending custom, limited edition bandanas …
Notes de l’épisode
Some quick housekeeping to start this lovely Sunday:
If you’ve already pre-ordered Caro’s debut novel Yesteryear, or wish to do so now, Knopf wants to thank you. They’re sending custom, limited edition bandanas to DL Substack subscribers — all you have to do is input proof of your order in this link here, and they’ll ship you the bandana, clean and simple. (This is only for US subscribers.) Thanks so much for the support, y’all!
Jeffrey Epstein got away with it because he was richer than God. No — he got away with it because he had a rolodex filled with the most influential and powerful people on the planet. No — he got away with it because of his wiliness, and his almost preternatural ability to charm people.
All of these claims have been discussed to death in both mainstream and alternative media, and continue to serve as the prevailing theories for why this man was able to abuse young women at a terrifying scale for decades without suffering legal repercussions for it.
Today, we discuss an alternative hypothesis.
”A Young Jeffrey Epstein Made An Impression On His High School Students,” by Cat Schuknecht for NPR
“Scams, Schemes, Ruthless Cons: The Untold Story of How Jeffrey Epstein Got Rich,” by David Enrich, Steve Eder, Jessica Silver-Greenberg, and Matthew Goldstein for The New York Times
“The Talented Mr. Epstein,” a March 2003 profile by Vicky Ward for Vanity Fair
“Jeffrey Epstein: International Moneyman of Mystery,” a 2002 profile by Landon Thomas Jr. for New York Magazine
Here’s one of the many, many early pieces of reporting I leaned on from The Palm Beach Post; not going to link all of them because it would fill Substack’s word count limit but highly encourage poring through their 2005/2006 archives
And here’s a pretty interesting FBI transcript of an interview with former Palm Beach Police Chief Michael Reiter, conducted in 2020
And here’s the deposition interview between unproblematic king Brad Edwards and World-Renowned Fucking Loser Epstein:
Highly encourage anyone and everyone to read Virginia Roberts Giuffre’s memoir, Nobody’s Girl
Here is the deposition Katie and I role-played where a Very Smart Lawyer played Very Smart Gotcha with Giuffre about, checks notes, whether or not she was a bartender in 2007
Here’s where a federal judge decided that Giuffre’s testimony about Epstein’s sex trafficking ring was not relevant to a case about Epstein’s sex trafficking ring
Here is a timeline from the Miami Herald on all this gruesome shit; cc looking through their archives, too, as well as the archives for The Tampa Bay Times for any interested armchair sleuths
If you liked that timeline by reporter Julie K. Brown, consider reading her book, Perversion of Justice: The Jeffrey Epstein Story
”How JPMorgan Enabled the Crimes of Jeffrey Epstein,” by David Enrich, Matthew Goldstein, and Jessica Silver-Greenberg for The New York Times
“Newly Unsealed Epstein Records Shed Light on Years of His Financial Transactions with Wall St. Figures,” by Kara Scannell for CNN
Here’s a link to the Epstein email dump, neatly organized in this little faux-inbox
Here’s the meta study elaborating on the justice gap, which highlights precisely how fucked survivors of sexual assault are in their efforts to seek justice
Read Jessica Knoll’s phenomenal book, Bright Young Women, if you want a highly entertaining and cathartic literary experience to exorcise the fury from your body
Thanks (and also sorry???) for listening!
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.diabolicalliespod.com/subscribeThe Myth of Centrism
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.comIf you pay attention to political commentary, you’ll often hear a few pieces of conventional wisdom:— America is “too …
Notes de l’épisode
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.comIf you pay attention to political commentary, you’ll often hear a few pieces of conventional wisdom:
— America is “too polarized”
— “Both sides” are “too extreme”
— Or, most innocuously, that politicians should simply do that which is “popular,” which is itself code for policies that are considered “moderate”
But do voters really punish candidates for being extreme? Are most “popular” ideas the “moderate” ones? And, moderate or not, does popularity necessarily indicate merit?
The supposed antidote to this handwringing about political polarization is, more often than not, the mythical “centrist” candidate who will appeal to the even-more-mythical “ordinary American.” Centrism is, as the name implies, an ideology that lacks an ideology.
Today, Diabolical Lies investigates the myth of centrism.
[Full references and citations can be found in the show notes at www.diabolicalliespod.com.]
Usha Vance, Rama Duwaji, & the Tragedy of Heterosexuality
Little bit of a heterosexual smackdown taking place today!But first, some housekeeping:As a reminder: Caro’s debut novel, YESTERYEAR, is coming out this spring (April 7th, to be exact), and she would love to …
Notes de l’épisode
Little bit of a heterosexual smackdown taking place today!
But first, some housekeeping:
As a reminder: Caro’s debut novel, YESTERYEAR, is coming out this spring (April 7th, to be exact), and she would love to see you all at the evening launch event in NYC. One can reasonably assume there will be laughter, tears, a book signing, and Caro on a stage looking incredibly sweaty while she talks about all things America, womanhood, tradwives, writing sex scenes in fiction, etc. She’ll be joined on stage by the famed pod duo Claire Parker and Ashley Hamilton as moderators for the evening, which essentially means we have finagled this book launch into a pseudo Good Noticings/Diabolical Lies crossover event. Ur welcome.
Also, we’d be so grateful if you humored us with a little anthropological insight by letting us know how you found the pod. Quick survey here.
Now, onto the show notes.
The Usha-Verse
“What Is Usha Vance Thinking?,” by Irin Carmon for The Cut
“From Yale to Newsmax, Usha Vance Has Helped J.D. Vance Chart His Path,” by Joseph Bernstein and Katherine Rosman for The New York Times
“Usha Vance Tries to Defend her Husband’s ‘Childless Cat Ladies’ Comment,” by Eric McDaniel for NPR
“The One Thing You Need to Know to Understand Usha Vance,” by Susan Matthews for Slate
…and of course, If Books Could Kill’s Coverage of Hillbilly Elegy
The Rama-Verse
“The Artist in Gracie Mansion,” by Danya Issawi for The Cut
“Artist Spotlight of Rama Duwaji,” by Nasri Atallah for YUNG
“Mamdani Names an All-Woman Transition Team,” by Nandika Chatterjee for TIME
The Tragedy of Heterosexuality
“The invention of ‘heterosexuality’,” by Brandon Ambrosino for the BBC
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.diabolicalliespod.com/subscribeICE is a Public Jobs Program for Losers
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.comNote: This episode was filmed on Monday, January 19 and the edit was finalized early on Saturday, January 24, before news …
Notes de l’épisode
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.comNote: This episode was filmed on Monday, January 19 and the edit was finalized early on Saturday, January 24, before news broke about the second (known) ICE execution in Minneapolis of 37-year-old Minneapolis resident Alex Pretti.
Today, we’re talking about a beloved American pastime: killing civilians in the name of public safety.
On the right, you’ll watch JD Vance and his trademark charmless sneer explain that this is only happening because civilians are being disorderly. Kristi Noem will tell you—straight from her lying bitch face—that ICE agents are being assaulted every day.
And on the liberal side of the aisle, you’re more likely to hear that the problem is that these agents aren’t “trained” to “follow the law.”
This conversation examines how media has traditionally been used to manufacture consent, and where new media might be used to undermine its efficacy; where individual identity does and does not matter when it comes to state violence; and what “public safety” and “order” really mean, and what these concepts serve to justify.
Strap in.
Scott Galloway vs. Heated Rivalry: Who Will Save the Men?
Have you heard? The men of America are in the midst of an existential crisis. A battle for good, evil, and the future of humanity. Who will emerge out of the darkness to lead the masses to freedom? Enter, stage …
Notes de l’épisode
Have you heard? The men of America are in the midst of an existential crisis. A battle for good, evil, and the future of humanity. Who will emerge out of the darkness to lead the masses to freedom?
Enter, stage left: one Scott Galloway.
Enter, stage right: two extremely hot and horny hockey players.
WHICH OF THESE HEROES WILL SLAY GLORIA STEINHEM RESTORE GLOBAL DIGNITY TO THE MEN?
Today, we find out.
A note from Caro before we begin: If the details within this episode cause your brain to overheat, I recommend pausing and listening to one of two auditory meditations:
* any live version of Praying by Kesha
* the West End Girl album from start to finish
Worked like a charm for me!
Below, you’ll find a summary of the three major debates we wish to have with Galloway, as well as an additional list of resources to pad your intellectual toolkit for your own interior monologue debates, followed by some love for Heated Rivalry to balm your restless soul.
Scott Galloway vs. Diabolical Lies, a Debate in Three Parts
1.) On educational biases against men
The argument made by Scott Galloway: The crisis of modern masculinity begins in the schoolroom, with young boys falling rapidly behind in the educational system by the time they reach kindergarten. This is largely due to developmental differences and educational biases which put young girls at an advantage, one that carries on through to college and higher ed, where they now have majority representation.
TL;DR: Little girls have way better brains and the school system is totally set up for them to win, which is why they’re fully creaming little boys all around the world, and that is bad.
The rebuttal, from Diabolical Lies: It’s true that certain studies have shown broad neurological differences between the sexes during adolescence, but these differences do not constitute a monolith. Plenty of other studies have flat-out disputed the premise of neurological differences altogether, alternatively suggesting that the difference in behavior between young boys and girls in classrooms is culturally driven. And anyways, given how men have been known to cut out the frontal cortex of ladies who yap too much, I think we’re licensed to say: Stay the fuck away from our brains regardless, you weirdos!
It also seems like an example of profound biological cherry-picking to claim that women have an indisputable biological advantage to young boys during the educational period, when the onset of menstruation during this exact same time period puts women at a proven massive deficit on a global level.
An estimated one in five girls globally and one in four in the US end up missing class or dropping out of school altogether because they cannot afford menstrual products.
Is that a crisis?
How about the fact that unexpected pregnancy is the number one reason young women drop out of school altogether, a stat that translates to millions of educational dropouts globally each year?
How about that? Is that a crisis?
Additionally, while it’s true that young girls do score higher in class on average, and that they do attend higher education in greater numbers, there’s no evidence that this is due to an educational bias. On the contrary, there is strong evidence to suggest that girls score higher grades in class and go on to college and graduate school in high numbers because they have to.
Evidence shows that women need to have at least one more degree than men to achieve pay parity across a number of fields; even then, the pay gap is still stark. And beyond that, it’s worth asking a few questions: are young men no longer going to college because the system discriminates against them, or are they no longer going to college because college is now coded as feminine, and therefore perceived as undesirable? And if we’re going to worry about educational biases, is gender truly the lens we should be examining the problem through, or are race and class far more useful for exploring discrimination in educational outcomes?
TL;DR: idk, read a book or something
mental health break
I HOPE UR FUCKIN PRAYING SCOTT
2.) On men being specifically and exclusively screwed in this current economy
The argument made by Scott Galloway: The current economy increasingly punishes the many in favor of elevating the few. In recent decades, the cost of housing, education, and healthcare have skyrocketed, and wages haven’t even remotely kept up with inflation. For the first time in American history, younger generations no longer feel confident they will achieve a higher standard of living than their parents… and this dire economic situation is one that disproportionately impacts men.
TL;DR: Men care more than women about manly things like living in homes because rahm emanuel said so
The rebuttal from Diabolical Lies: Contrary to popular belief, women are also people, and therefore impacted by broad socioeconomic issues, not the least of which include the affordability and housing crisis in America. This is to say nothing of the childcare crisis. In fact, according to a recent University of Kansas analysis of Bureau of Labor Statistics data, more than 400,000 women left the workforce in the first half of 2025, marking the steepest decline in over 40 years for mothers of young children. The main reason why these women left the workforce? They wanted to be good Christian wives and mothers, of course! Neat little fun fact for you: When something has to give, societally speaking, it is always the woman who gives it.
TL;DR: Women also need homes and groceries and money for childcare. Radical concept, I know!
mental health break
3.) On men needing women to serve as the “guardrails” of culture
The argument made by Scott Galloway: In order to be functioning, contributing members of society, men need a sense of purpose in their lives. They need to feel victorious. And since world war is no longer a reliable failsafe for men feeling purpose, the goal of securing a wife and mother for your children is the best motivator for men to do the stuff they need to do, like stay in school and get a good job. Women like educated men with good jobs! That’s why people got married more in the 1950s: because women found men in uniforms attractive, and because those men in uniforms knew how to behave like gracious, respectful suitors worthy of female affection. That’s what we need to get back to: a 1950s-style of engagement.
TL;DR: Women are, as we have discussed in a recent episode, the morality police for society. Their job is to alternately be the carrot and/or the stick to lure or prod men forward as good citizens of society, and that is…a really healthy perspective to have on how men and women should operate! For sure! No downsides detected here!
The rebuttal from Diabolical Lies: Ha ha, okay, so just to be clear here :) women did not enter into marriage and motherhood in the 1950s because the men were hotter and nicer back then :) they entered into marriage because they had very few legal rights of their own :) they were property, Scott :) do you know what property is? :) the first no-fault divorce law was passed in 1969 in California :) women were not allowed to access credit or bank loans free of male cosigners until 1974 :) there was no such thing as paid maternity leave until 1993 :) are you picking up what I’m putting down here :) did I stutter :) we had no rights :) and then we got some rights :) and now you’re very politely trying to take our rights :) get the fuck away from our rights, Scott :)
TL;DR: Scott Galloway I will drive to your house and lobotomize you myself and you can let me know how much you like a 1950s-style approach to dealing with our problems
In conclusion: We win the debate and are just flatly correct but Galloway will still continue to out-earn, out-panel, and out-scream us for the rest of his days, a truly delicious irony for a man who has made a career whining about men falling behind
More Galloway-related stats to peruse at your leisure
It might be true that there are difference…
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.diabolicalliespod.com/subscribeThe Texasification of America
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.comEarlier this month, the Office of the Texas Governor Greg Abbott quietly released a statement that “emphasized the …
Notes de l’épisode
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.comEarlier this month, the Office of the Texas Governor Greg Abbott quietly released a statement that “emphasized the importance of TPUSA Club America chapter enrollment and involvement on high school campuses across the state,” in effect signaling their intent to support after-school programs for right-wing extremism in Texas public schools.
This would appear to be your average, garden-variety depressing update relevant only to those living where the Stars At Night Are Big And Bright, except for the fact that Texas has long been a laboratory for approximately half a dozen Christian Nationalists, high from huffing the fumes wafting off their barrels of oil money, to speed-run insane shit that ends up in documents like Project 2025.
So what can we learn from studying their playbook and understanding the mechanics of their holy war as ground zero for Christian Nationalism? Diabolical Lies investigates.
BONUS: Caro & Katie React to the Erika Kirk CBS Town Hall
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.comSurprise! Caro & Katie react in real time to the programming we all should’ve seen coming: “CBS News Presents: A Town Hall …
Notes de l’épisode
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.comSurprise! Caro & Katie react in real time to the programming we all should’ve seen coming: “CBS News Presents: A Town Hall with Erika Kirk.”
Don't Go to Starbucks This Holiday Season. Here's Why.
Coming at you with our first ever bonus conversation for the public, in which we discuss the ongoing Starbucks Workers United strike taking place at hundreds of locations (and growing) all over the country …
Notes de l’épisode
Coming at you with our first ever bonus conversation for the public, in which we discuss the ongoing Starbucks Workers United strike taking place at hundreds of locations (and growing) all over the country right now. It’s also a conversation in which we offer a humble request of you this holiday season: Don’t go to Starbucks right now, if you can manage it.
If, for whatever reason, you do need to go to Starbucks right now, fine. This is not a game of purity tests! It’s a game of numbers. As such, consider cutting your usual order or frequency of visits in half. Get your kid the cake pop, but cut out your regular cappuccino, or take the venti to a tall, etc. Every dollar you withhold from this corporation during a sustained labor strike is going to hit them that much harder, and the potential ripple effect of a combined consumer and labor boycott on one of the largest food & beverage corporations in America is hard to overstate.
Other references & citations
* As of Monday, 3,800 baristas across 130 cities are holding the line
* Workers in 10 other countries (!) began protesting in support
* If you’re a Starbucks barista thinking about organizing your store, you can reach out here
* Starbucks Workers United national strike fund
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.diabolicalliespod.com/subscribeIs There a ‘Skinny Apocalypse’ in Hollywood?
First things first: Merch is here! Get it now before it’s gone. We’re so proud of this limited edition drop of deeply diabolical merchandise. Items will ship in mid-January, and 33% of all net profits will go …
Notes de l’épisode
First things first: Merch is here!
Get it now before it’s gone. We’re so proud of this limited edition drop of deeply diabolical merchandise. Items will ship in mid-January, and 33% of all net profits will go to Feeding America, a non-profit nationwide network of more than 200 food banks that feed more than 46 million people through food pantries, soup kitchens, shelters, and other community-based agencies.
If you’re a paid subscriber, you can access two exclusive pieces of DL swag by using your special password, which can be found in our merchandise announcement, or in the episode preceding this one in your audio feed.
I, Caro, usually to try to be witty for show notes but frankly there are too many resources to share for this episode so I’m going to organize them by the three major topics covered in this conversation and then leave it there, ya girl has been poring through met gala archives for days and she’s TIRED.
on the body positivity movement, aka that time period where we were all briefly “liberated” by the charitable and fierce activist work of, uh, corporate capture
First, you should read anything that Virginia Sole-Smith or Aubrey Gordon write on the topic (and here’s the column we quote from Gordon about being “body positive but”)
Now, onto the links.
The Guardian op-ed on the “end of body positivity” by fat columnist and writer Rose Stokes
Some useful historical information on the history of fat activism (generally speaking, the national association to advance fat acceptance (naafa) is a great org)
Vogue’s 2025 inclusivity report which lamented our drop in body positivity from, checks notes, 2% percent of models to 1.8% of models
Some helpful context for the real-world weight loss of glp-1 vs clinical trials
some evidence for just how often we undergo a culture-wide chicken little moment of running around screaming that “ultra thin body types” are “suddenly back in vogue” and “it’s a dangerous new trend”
* we were worrying about it in 2023
* …and also in 2022
* …and also in 2019
* oh and by the way, when we *did* have fat characters on the screen, we basically mocked the characters mercilessly for being fat, yay for body positivity!
* anyways yeah we were also talking about this in 2016
* and 2012
* and 2007
You get the point.
Oh also here’s an op-ed about michelle obama’s crusade against obesity that might complicate the narrative around conservatism equaling skinny culture
on the moral panic around eating disorders, featuring a series of fun facts caro learned on her intellectual rumspringa which thoroughly blew her mind
some recent studies on the potential inheritability of eating disorders
some background information on how men and fat people have been historically excluded from eating disorder research and recovery avenues
a historical explainer of anorexia (and here’s where I found the William Gull excerpt)
info on the high comorbidity between anorexia and obsessive-compulsive disorder
a deep dive on the “biopsychosocial” of it all in relation to eating disorders
and then a quick side door into the tressie-katie convo that truly rocked our worlds
as well as this incredible comment we received on our liv schmidt/skinnytok ep, in its entirety:
casual!
on the magical third door/leg stool: Rayne Fisher-Quann’s theory of being “womaned”
Here’s the full piece Fisher-Quann wrote for i-D Magazine
And the book I reference, Damned Whores & God’s Police, by Anne Summers
Here’s the JLaw NYT interview, as well as the Kristen Stewart NYT interview
That’s it, thanks for coming to the show, there will be no encore, etc etc etc-
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.diabolicalliespod.com/subscribeDid Women Ruin the Workplace?
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.comFeminist hysteria has replaced logic and reason in the American public discourse, or so says one Helen Andrews. Today, we …
Notes de l’épisode
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.comFeminist hysteria has replaced logic and reason in the American public discourse, or so says one Helen Andrews. Today, we dive into the logical underpinnings for this argument and conduct a close read of the source material, which does a genuinely impressive job of evading all manner of pesky contradictory data (women’s workforce participation declining since the year 2000, women making up less than 50% of corporate America even at the entry level, etc.) in order to mount an incredible argument: Wokeness is *sharply inhales through teeth* just chick stuff.
Consider this a corollary to our The Men Are Not All Right episode, in that the “Great Feminization” panic is yet another outgrowth of the thesis that governs all of American gender politics: Society is failing men, but women are failing society.
All references and citations in this episode can be found on the episode page at www.diabolicalliespod.com.
BONUS: Olivia Nuzzi, Trump/Mamdani, & Where Caro and Katie Disagree
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.comAs a reminder, this is a bonus episode, which means (say it with us now) we didn’t try that hard <3 Thanks for everyone who …
Notes de l’épisode
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.comAs a reminder, this is a bonus episode, which means (say it with us now) we didn’t try that hard <3
Thanks for everyone who showed up to our live AMA this week. We laughed, we cried, we read RFK’s “swallow” poem to Olivia Nuzzi and will never be the same.
A sampling of questions asked, and answered, in this conversation:
The Katie Episode
Earlier this month, Katie made a major announcement about her brand Money with Katie: In 2026, she will buy back her intellectual property rights and equity from Morning Brew, shutter the podcast for the …
Notes de l’épisode
Earlier this month, Katie made a major announcement about her brand Money with Katie: In 2026, she will buy back her intellectual property rights and equity from Morning Brew, shutter the podcast for the indefinite future, take full ownership of the weekly newsletter, and return to her roots as a writer.
This is a massive decision, to say the least, with major financial and spiritual implications — and if I, Caro, may be so bold, it feels very Diabolical Lies-coded. When Katie made the announcement public, it served as an excuse for me to corner Katie into a conversation I’ve been wanting to have with her for a very long time.
So today we’re doing it. We’re diving into the full story of Money with Katie, featuring but not limited to:
* how Katie became involved with personal finance
* what it was like to build MWK from a side hustle to a seven-figure brand
* where her political deconstruction from a capitalist to a radical commie fits into this equation
* what it was like to kickstart another podcast while working sixty hour weeks
* how much fun it was to meet me, Caro, hee hee ho ho
* why she’s deciding to pivot at the exact moment when most people would double down on what’s “already working”
Next spring, we will do a similar episode about me related to my novelist career. As a reminder, we’re doing an live AMA/bonus ep/gigglefest on Substack on Monday, November 24, at 6 PM EST. Email questions to [email protected].
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.diabolicalliespod.com/subscribe"Ethical Consumption" & the History of "Selling Out"
A “point, counterpoint”-style deep dive into the double-sided coin of “ethical consumption” and “ethical salesmanship” (or its alternative, “selling out”) under that little thing we call “capitalism,” sponsored …
Notes de l’épisode
A “point, counterpoint”-style deep dive into the double-sided coin of “ethical consumption” and “ethical salesmanship” (or its alternative, “selling out”) under that little thing we call “capitalism,” sponsored by our treasured economic partners in the Saudi Royal Family.
“Is There REALLY No Ethical Consumption Under Capitalism?” from Clotheshorse with Amanda Lee McCarty (2024)
“This feminist t-shirt isn’t actually made in a sweatshop” by Zing Tsjeng from Dazed (2014)
Karl Marx in America by Andrew Hartman (2025)
“Marxism Unmasked: From Delusion to Destruction,” a lecture series from 1952 by all-time neoliberal juggernaut Ludwig von Mises
“The Litter Myth” from “Throughline” by NPR (2019)
“A Beautiful If Evil Strategy” by Chris Rose from Plastic Pollution Coalition (2017)
“Leaked Audio Reveals How Coca-Cola Undermines Plastic Recycling Efforts” by Sharon Lerner from The Intercept (2019)
“What is Amazon Web Services?” by Melissa Eddy from The New York Times (2025)
“People Think Amazon Is an E-Commerce Company, but 74% of Its Profit Comes from This Instead” by Anthony Di Pizio for The Motley Fool (2024)
This video from Grace Blakeley, author of Vulture Capitalism, about whether one’s identity as a consumer can ever be weaponized as an anti-capitalist tool
“Ethical Consumerism Isn’t Dead, It Just Needs Better Marketing” by Julie Irwin for Harvard Business Review (2015)
“The Case Against Corporate Social Responsibility” by Aneel Karmani for Wall Street Journal (2010)
“Nirvana: Inside the Heart and Mind of Kurt Cobain” by Michael Azerrad for Rolling Stone (1992)
“Lived Through This,” an interview with Chuck Klosterman, by David Wallace-Wells for Vulture
“The Rise and Decline of the ‘Sellout’” by Franz Nicolay for Slate (2017)
Shakespeare’s Sonnet 110, in which he bemoans the need to do spon con so he can make a living as a writer
“In the 90s, We Worried About Nirvana ‘Selling Out.’ I Wish That Concept Still Made Sense,” by Dan Brooks for The Guardian (2023)
“How We Stopped Caring About Selling Out” and “Comedy’s Favorite Truth-Tellers are Playing Jester for the Saudi Prince” by Emily Topping for Current Affairs (2025)
“The Age of the Double Sell-Out” by W. David Marx (2025)
“I didn’t listen to a single Taylor Swift song on Spotify last year. She still made money off me.” by Chris A. Williams for The Philadelphia Inquirer (2024)
“It’s Not the Crime, It’s the Coverup” by Freddie deBoer (2025)
“Ha ha! Ha ha!” an infamous review of Trick Mirror by Lauren Oyler for London Review of Books (2020)
“The Journalist as Influencer: How We Sell Ourselves on Social Media” by Allegra Hobbs for The Guardian (2019)
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.diabolicalliespod.com/subscribeHow to Give Birth in America, Pt. 1
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.com
BONUS: Taylor Swift's Rumspringa, Reviewed
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.comAs with all bonus conversations, this episode breaks from the regular format of this show and operates instead like an …
Notes de l’épisode
This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.diabolicalliespod.comAs with all bonus conversations, this episode breaks from the regular format of this show and operates instead like an homage to how it started—sending impassioned voice memos back and forth. Enjoy.
*snaps into character to method-act as Tyra Banks* We were all rooting for you.
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