254 - Communicating fire science with firefighters, with Steve Kerber

Fire science should have its place at the fireground, yet I've learned how hard it is to communicate it with the key stakeholder - the firefighters. It's not my isolated experience, and that tension drives our conversation with Steve Kerber, Vice President at UL Research Institutes Fire Safety Research Institute (FSRI). Today we dig into the real craft of communicating fire dynamics to firefighters without losing the truth of the science.

We talk about why experience alone can mislead when every incident is full of unknowns, and how repeatable research can “rewind the tape” to test tactics under controlled conditions. Steve explains how measurements like temperature, heat flux, and toxic gas concentration can clarify what different decisions actually do to survivability and operational time windows. We also get honest about the trust gap between lab work and the messy reality firefighters see every day, especially when buildings and contents evolve faster than training programs.

From there, we get practical: how FSRI listens to a more complete voice of the fragmented fire service using advisory boards and fire service technical panels, how to reach line firefighters through the media and training pathways they already rely on, and why “simplify, don’t dumb down” is the way to teach concepts like ventilation-limited fire, flashover, and ventilation control at scale. Steve shares how video, clear visuals, and well-designed props can build the muscle memory crews need under pressure, plus the story of how research challenged the old fear that exterior water “pushes fire.”

We also cover a clear win where technical research and health research meet: firefighter exposure and cancer prevention, and why that evidence changed behavior across the profession. If you care about fire protection engineering, evidence-based firefighting, firefighter safety, and turning research into real-world outcomes, this one is for you.

The Fire Science Show was built around the mission to communicate better. This is the kind of episode that is perfect for the occasion... as we are celebrating the 5th anniversary of the podcast today! Thank you all for being with us for the 5 years!

If you would like some additional resources:

• https://fsri.org/resources All the resources by FSRI. A masterclass on how good communication looks like.
• Utilizing Research to Enhance Fire Service Knowledge - Steve Kerber's PhD Thesis very relevant to the topic we discuss today

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.