And The Writer Is…with Ross Golan
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Über den Podcast
Every week, we sit down with an acclaimed and venerable songwriter to intimately discuss what happens behind closed doors in the music industry. There are millions of singers, thousands of artists, and only 40 top songs per genre at a time... this podcast is about the people who make them. Produced by Joe London & Ross Golan in association with Big Deal Music & Mega House Music. And The Writer Is... ™
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Folgen 132
And The Update Is…Spotify’s Royalty Fight, Universal’s Bloodbath, and the Week in Music
And The Update Is…a weekly beat on the industry . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Ep. 269: RAYE | How She Escaped Her Record Deal and Became a Superstar
Today's guest is the British singer-songwriter behind “Escapism.” and “WHERE IS MY HUSBAND!” After seven years in a record deal without releasing her debut album, she went independent, landed a UK No. 1 and won …
Shownotes
Today's guest is the British singer-songwriter behind “Escapism.” and “WHERE IS MY HUSBAND!”
After seven years in a record deal without releasing her debut album, she went independent, landed a UK No. 1 and won six BRIT Awards in one night.
This is the story of how she found her own way to succeed—and brought her people with her.
And The Writer Is... RAYE!
In this episode, we get into:
• Signing a record deal at 17, having hits, and still being unable to release her debut album.
• The album called “too risky,” the partner who backed it, and “Escapism.” changing everything.
• Bringing her family and band into the success, and demanding fairer treatment for songwriters.
• Her full writing process, early “Click Clack Symphony.” demos, and nine hours on the “WHERE IS MY HUSBAND!” bridge. and much more.
Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.
Join us on Patreon: patreon.com/andthewriteris
Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris
A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible.
Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us.
PRS for Music — supporting songwriters, composers and publishers. Find out more: https://www.prsformusic.com/join
And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period. Have you tried variations yet?
CHAPTERS
0:00 Intro
1:10 Making music and touring with her family
7:38 What happened to her grandfather's songs
9:49 Ad: PRS for Music
11:09 Ad: Splice 12:16
Ross's stolen-song story and the line between influence and theft
17:33 Who deserves a songwriting credit?
19:52 Why songwriters deserve fees and master points
25:29 The power to say no and protect your splits
28:50 Advice for young writers: choosing your battles and avoiding comparison
33:18 Writing her first song at seven
36:48 The BRIT School and finding her voice
42:21 Subscribe to And The Writer Is
42:50 Jazz freedom and her first music-industry reality check
47:13 The dance hits that came with conditions
48:17 Signing her record deal at 17
54:26 Seven years, hit records and still no debut album
56:33 Going independent and the Escapism. breakthrough
1:02:56 Ice Cream Man. and finding strength through music
1:08:15 The BRIT Awards night she still has not watched back
1:10:38 Making THIS MUSIC MAY CONTAIN HOPE. on her own terms
1:12:38 Playing the early Click Clack Symphony. demos
1:14:53 Why she writes with Auto-Tune
1:17:15 Title first: heels, lyrics and theatrical melodies
1:18:48 Nine hours on the WHERE IS MY HUSBAND! bridge
1:21:19 Getting bigger without trying to please everyone
1:23:30 Who is Suzanne? Picking a song for every mood
1:26:18 Her grandfather's poems in Fields
1:27:04 Opening for Bruno Mars
1:28:48 Closing: building a better music industry
CREDITS
Hosted by Ross Golan
Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad
Edited by Jad Saad
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Ep. 268: Ilya Salmanzadeh | How The Swedes Cracked Hit Songwriting and Why Most People Won't
Today's guest is the Swedish producer and songwriter behind "Problem," "Into You," "Love Me Like You Do," "No Tears Left To Cry," "Santa Tell Me," and "Unholy,". He finally sits down with Ross for an And The …
Shownotes
Today's guest is the Swedish producer and songwriter behind "Problem," "Into You," "Love Me Like You Do," "No Tears Left To Cry," "Santa Tell Me," and "Unholy,".
He finally sits down with Ross for an And The Writer Is interview ten years in the making.
He taught himself to make music from a demo CD that came in a cereal box.
A radio singing contest got him discovered, and he signed a publishing deal at 17.
It then took him ten years to land his first real hit. He tells Ross how a year of playing FIFA with Shellback led to Wolf Cousins, and what Max Martin's famous "math" actually is.
If you've ever wondered how the biggest pop songs of the last decade actually get finished, this one's for you
And The Writer Is... Ilya Salmanzadeh!
JOIN THE ATWI PATREON
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Patreon.com/andthewriteris
THANKS TO OUR SPONSOR SPLICE
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CHAPTERS
0:00 Cold open: what Max Martin's "math" really means
1:32 Welcome Ilya Salmanzadeh
3:12 What MXM is: "like Real Madrid signed me"
4:46 Jantelagen: why Swedes won't brag
9:57 Born in Iran, raised in Denmark
16:22 A cereal-box CD and teaching himself music
19:54 The hits: Problem, Into You, Unholy and more
21:32 Early influences: Tracy Chapman, Michael Jackson, hip-hop
24:50 Why the world's biggest pop writers live in Stockholm
27:14 Wanting to be an R&B artist
32:36 The radio singing contest that got him discovered
37:26 Ten years from publishing deal to first hit
39:09 Telemarketing and Apple tech support
43:08 The immigrant drive to prove he belongs
46:21 His first cut: the Bratz album
48:20 A year of FIFA with Shellback and the birth of Wolf Cousins
52:37 The MXM pop family tree
54:21 Competition vs. family inside MXM
58:40 Max Martin: "Why aren't you in LA?"
1:00:41 What Max Martin taught him about songwriting
1:03:13 "Problem": Savan Kotecha's original voice memo
1:08:59 The morning "Problem" hit #1 on iTunes
1:10:57 His father and the number he keeps seeing
1:14:31 Weeks on one pre-chorus: making "Into You"
1:21:55 "Love Me Like You Do" started as a Sunday hang
1:27:08 Producer vs. writer credits: "Bad Blood" and "Bang Bang"
1:31:42 His creative wavelength with Ariana Grande
1:32:23 "No Tears Left To Cry" breaking the pop rules
1:34:00 "God is a woman" was almost for Beyoncé and JAY-Z
1:35:48 Ariana Grande as a producer1:37:27 "Unholy": the hotel staff, Max and his daughter
1:44:20 When a release doesn't hit
1:47:11 14-hour days: how he finishes so much music
1:48:57 Chris Martin, Coldplay and the "mind movie"
1:52:17 Why he keeps working with new artists (Tate McRae, LISA)
1:54:53 "eternal sunshine" vs. "petal": the two-room process
1:56:54 "Santa Tell Me" and chasing a Christmas classic
1:59:24 Has Ilya finally proven his worth to himself?
And The Writer Is, hosted by Ross Golan, is a podcast about the songwriters, producers and artists behind the songs you love.
Instagram: instagram.com/andthewriteris
Hosted by Ross Golan
Produced by Joe London and Jad Saad
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Ep. 267: YG Opens Up. Bad Deals, Hit Records, and a Midlife Crisis
Today’s guest is a multi-platinum rapper and songwriter who took Compton to the charts and gave the world “My Hitta,” “Who Do You Love?” and “Big Bank.” From his debut album My Krazy Life to collaborations with …
Shownotes
Today’s guest is a multi-platinum rapper and songwriter who took Compton to the charts and gave the world “My Hitta,” “Who Do You Love?” and “Big Bank.”
From his debut album My Krazy Life to collaborations with Drake, Nipsey Hussle, and Nicki Minaj, he’s built a catalog that’s done serious damage to club speakers. Now, with The Gentlemen’s Club, he’s getting personal and reminding everyone there’s a storyteller behind the hits.
And The Writer Is…
YG!
In this episode we go deep on:
- The inspiration behind his new album
- The Def Jam singles deal with five album options: "I could have sued everybody"
- What he'd tell an 18-year-old holding a label offer
- Why having a catalog doesn't mean you own it
- What a YG session looks like: tequila, "next beat," and a BPM in his head
- How "FDT" got made with Nipsey, and why Def Jam wouldn't release it
- The night Nicki said "don't put this out without me"
- "Who Do You Love?": three months, hook writers, and Drake telling him to do it himself
And much more...
Hit subscribe and turn on notifications.
Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.
Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris
A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible.
Our lead sponsor, our Patreon!
Patreon.com/andthewriteris
And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period.
Chapters
0:00 Intro
0:32 Hiring a "Hitman"
8:07 "Were you ever suicidal?" and the homies who said "same"
9:10 Chin up, chest out: what the streets never let you say
10:28 "2004," the song he cut from the album
24:31 Turning himself in while his song blew up, and the label that called his mom
27:31 Signing young: "I could have sued everybody"
28:24 Ross: athletes get rookie orientation, artists get "good luck"
34:57 What he'd tell an 18-year-old holding a label offer
39:40 The masters trap: you have a catalog, but you don't own it
41:30 What a session with YG actually looks like
47:39 Why he made Gentleman's Club: "they were playing with my name"
50:10 How "Hollywood" with Shoreline Mafia got made
53:51 How "FDT" happened with Nipsey, and why Def Jam passed
59:40 Meeting Nipsey: two different gangs, one mission
1:05:56 How do you stay brave when the people around you get killed?
1:10:59 The night "My Hitta" got made
1:13:03 "Big Bank": Nicki says don't put it out without me
1:18:15 What he knows at 36 that he didn't at 20: the streets don't love you back
1:27:20 "Who Do You Love?": three months and Drake's "you do the hook"
1:30:02 What makes a Mustard beat different
Credits Hosted by Ross Golan
Produced by Joe London and Jad Saad
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Ep. 266: Tinashe’s Guide to Making It on Your Own Terms
Today’s guest is a singer, songwriter, producer and dancer who has spent her career trusting her own instincts—and building a world around them.From “2 On” to “Nasty” and “No Broke Boys,” Tinashe has kept …
Shownotes
Today’s guest is a singer, songwriter, producer and dancer who has spent her career trusting her own instincts—and building a world around them.
From “2 On” to “Nasty” and “No Broke Boys,” Tinashe has kept releasing music through major-label deals, independent projects and viral breakthroughs.
She’s collaborated with artists including Calvin Harris, Charli xcx and Kaytranada, and joins us to talk about the journey behind it all.
And The Writer Is... Tinashe!
Hit subscribe and turn on notifications.
Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.
Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris
A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible.Splice, the best sample library on the market, period.
and our lead sponsor, our Patreon page!
We're still giving away free Universal Audio Recording Gear in our next zoom hang.
Join us on Patreon: patreon.com/andthewriteris
CHAPTERS
0:00 Intro
0:46 Tinashe and Ross reconnect—back to The Stunners
3:48 “Deep in the Night”—the song she wrote at five
5:08 Tinashe’s French fry rankings
6:12 Child acting, Whoopi Goldberg, and moving to LA
9:11 Life in a girl group without creative control
11:22 Buying a microphone and building a bedroom studio
14:10 Getting signed—and expecting it to be easy
18:40 Join the ATWI Patreon
19:32 Splice: Sounds and Variations
20:39 Early Travis Scott sessions and being taken seriously in the studio
23:29 Recording 200 songs—and trusting the big producer’s opinion26:33 Trusting your gut and knowing when to leave a session
30:43 “2 On” takes off. What happens after the first hit?
36:03 Writing “2 On” in a garage with friends
37:37 Does having a hit teach you how to make one?
39:20 Leaving her label and rebuilding trust in her own ideas
43:29 What releasing music independently actually takes
46:10 Filming her own videos and building her visual world
48:14 How dancing shapes the way she writes songs
50:08 Working with a label again—and finding Ricky Reed
52:11 Getting the call from Calvin Harris
53:52 Why genre doesn’t define her music
55:19 “Nasty” takes off after she stops needing another hit
57:04 Why she won’t write for a TikTok trend
58:43 Charli xcx and finding freedom after early hits
1:00:41 The unexpected remix journey of “No Broke Boys”
1:03:31 Taking the Grammy off her lock screen after seven years
1:05:14 Making POPSTAR—and giving herself time to play
1:05:55 Which POPSTAR song fits every mood?
1:08:19 Claiming the pop star she’s always been
1:13:32 “Just don’t stop”—keep putting your music out
1:14:42 Her advice to young women in music: intuition
Credits
Hosted by Ross Golan
Produced by Joe London and Jad Saad
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Ep. 265: How Remi Wolf Built Her Career: Study the Greats, Take the Gig, Say Yes
Today’s guest is one of the most unmistakable voices in modern pop — an artist, songwriter and producer who has built a career by making music that sounds like nobody else. Her catalog has passed two billion …
Shownotes
Today’s guest is one of the most unmistakable voices in modern pop — an artist, songwriter and producer who has built a career by making music that sounds like nobody else. Her catalog has passed two billion global streams. She’s played top billing at festivals including Coachella, Lollapalooza and Outside Lands, opened for Olivia Rodrigo, Lorde and Paramore, and collaborated with artists including Nile Rodgers, Beck, Dominic Fike and Sylvan Esso.
And The Writer Is... Remi Wolf!
In this episode, we get into
- The USC training that rebuilt her voice
- Waiting tables and taking Craigslist gigs while building a career
- The 30-minute session behind “Photo ID,”
- Industry lessons for every artist to take notes on...
and much more.
Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.
Join us on Patreon: patreon.com/andthewriteris
Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris
A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible.
Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us.
CHAPTERS
0:00 Intro
0:40 “You can’t teach tone” — how Remi found hers
2:13 USC: “We’re going to beat you down until you feel like you’re nothing”
6:15 Fourteen, busking the Bay Area, and writing songs in Chloe’s kitchen
13:40 “Carousel” — the first song she ever wrote
15:41 A substitute teacher, an apartment, and her first recording
18:05 Ski racer by day, songwriter by night
19:05 Meeting Jared Solomon at 15 — then finding each other again
21:07 Applebee’s on tour — and the road to sobriety
24:04 Rehab, writing Juno sober, and why clarity changed the songs
29:02 “It’s not ready” — why she refused to release music in college
30:22 Six songs in one week — the reunion that started everything
34:24 Restaurant shifts and Craigslist gigs: how she paid to keep making music
39:26 The Sofar show that led to her first manager
42:39 “I had no expectations” — making music before the industry got involved
45:28 35,000 decisions a day — what creative control actually costs
49:22 “You have to start protecting yourself”
51:34 What is the goal? Redefining success
56:51 Her first album rollout sober
59:21 Social media, warped expectations, and screaming into the void
63:22 “Photo ID,” TikTok, and the accident that helped it explode
66:40 “Photo ID” took 30 minutes — and she thought it was horrible
70:15 Her first professional topline session: “I was overcome with social anxiety”
72:11 Why I’m Allergic to Dogs worked during lockdown
74:56 Why Juno is called Juno
78:50 Hayley Williams and singing with another “belt queen”
82:25 Five years of nonstop touring — and finally hitting pause
87:15 “I Won’t Cry” — her favorite song she’s ever written
89:15 “I was sick of the uptempo shit” — writing 130 songs for Mud
90:49 Her first pitch session was for BTS
92:34 Which Mud song fits every mood
94:10 “I’m the happiest I’ve been in my life”
Credits
Hosted by Ross Golan
Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
And The Update Is...Ella Langley Makes Billboard History, UMG Sues DistroKid & Songwriters Fight for Healthcare
And The Update Is…a weekly beat on the industry . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Ep. 264: How Aaron Dessner Became an Industry Favorite and the 3AM Text That Became 'folklore'
Today's guest is a musician's musician who co-founded The National, the Grammy-winning band behind Boxer, High Violet and Sleep Well Beast.He co-wrote and produced Taylor Swift's folklore and evermore …
Shownotes
Today's guest is a musician's musician who co-founded The National, the Grammy-winning band behind Boxer, High Violet and Sleep Well Beast.
He co-wrote and produced Taylor Swift's folklore and evermore, including cardigan and willow. folklore won Album of the Year at the Grammys.
He worked on The Tortured Poets Department and produced Ed Sheeran's Subtract.
He's behind Gracie Abrams' I Love You, I'm Sorry and Noah Kahan's Porch Light.
In the last year alone, he's made records with Mumford & Sons, Florence + the Machine, Brandi Carlile, Sam Barber, Kevin Morby and Suki Waterhouse.
He's one half of Big Red Machine with Bon Iver's Justin Vernon.
And he built Long Pond, the Hudson Valley studio where many of these songs were made.
And The Writer Is... Aaron Dessner!
Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.
Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris
A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible.
Amazon Music for Songwriters. Your support means the world to us.
And SONA — Songwriters of North America. If you write songs, join them. They fight for us.
0:00 Intro
1:00 Cardigan, willow, Porch Light — and eight albums in a year
5:26 Why "I Love You, I'm Sorry" was never the single
7:27 Secretly rooting for the weird song
8:17 When a pop star needs a single right now
10:25 Don't fill the space: how he walks into a session
12:12 Long Pond and "you never make a mistake investing in your creativity"
17:24 Twin brothers and their dad's jazz drums
22:48 "We faked it": how The National got signed
26:48 Playing to no one — then 500 strangers in Michigan
30:05 "Did you lose yourself?"
33:14 When one bandmate starts writing hits for other people
35:38 On stage with Taylor: "You're playing a stadium. It's okay."
37:27 "Hey, it's Taylor": the text in 2020
40:34 The Dropbox folder — and cardigan by 3 a.m.
47:45 The thank-you note that became willow
51:49 Meeting Gracie Abrams — and 2–3 songs a day
57:47 How an instrumentalist became the storyteller's whisperer
1:01:11 Why his albums don't get shelved: finishing Prizefighter
1:04:23 Studio stories: Gracie, Brandi Carlile, Florence, Sam Barber
1:11:40 Noah Kahan arrives burnt out — and Porch Light
1:15:41 Live Q&A: finding the corners, his first key change
1:18:24 Advice for musicians with day jobs
1:20:07 What all the greats have in common
Credits:
Hosted by Ross Golan
Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Ep. 263: Ziggy Marley on Family Rules for Life, Music, and Success
Today's guest is a Grammy-winning songwriter, bandleader and activist who has spent four decades inside the most famous name in reggae — but whose real story isn't the inheritance. It's the set of rules …
Shownotes
Today's guest is a Grammy-winning songwriter, bandleader and activist who has spent four decades inside the most famous name in reggae — but whose real story isn't the inheritance. It's the set of rules underneath it, the ones the family actually lives by, which turn out to have almost nothing to do with music.
And The Writer Is... Ziggy Marley!
Subscribe to our channel and follow us on socials @andthewriteris Every week we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.
A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible.
Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us.
And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period.
Chapters:
0:00 He inherited a legacy and built a voice of his own
0:45 Why reggae heals
4:53 What makes the Marley family so consistent
6:43 Seven kids, and the family business that isn't music
8:36 Why the whole album is tuned to 432
12:32 The one song he left at 440
16:06 What makes this album different from the other fifteen
18:11 Finishing the songs before going into the studio
20:37 Why he wrote "Many Mourn For Bob" 45 years later
24:54 Umbrella or shadow: being a Marley
26:39 The funeral, and the drive to Nine Miles
30:54 NMPA + Splice
33:15 Breaking the four-bar on "Racism"
36:03 "It sounds light, but it's heavy underneath"
38:37 What "Beach in Hawaii" is actually about
43:37 How he found out "Tomorrow People" was a hit
46:14 The Melody Makers, and the line you don't cross
49:15 "Create your own space"
53:45 Advice to the next Marleys
55:27 "You can't just ChatGPT life experience"
59:12 "When the fridge was empty, I was happy"
1:00:26 "I know my value"
1:03:07 "It's always new. Still a kid."
Credits:
Hosted by Ross Golan
Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
And The Update Is...The Industry Mourns Dolly, AI Music, $11 BILLION in Ticket Fees & Ella Langley Takes Over the Charts
And The Update Is…a weekly beat on the industry . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Ep. 262: Ryan Beatty | How to Make It in Music Without Losing Yourself
Today's guest is an artist and songwriter whose career has taken him from teenage YouTube covers to working with Beyoncé, Tyler, The Creator, Brockhampton, Miley Cyrus and Jack Antonoff.But this conversation is …
Shownotes
Today's guest is an artist and songwriter whose career has taken him from teenage YouTube covers to working with Beyoncé, Tyler, The Creator, Brockhampton, Miley Cyrus and Jack Antonoff.
But this conversation is really about something bigger: How to build a career in music without losing yourself along the way.
Ryan talks about learning to trust his own taste, being grateful he never had a hit record, protecting what makes an artist special, and refusing to let success, algorithms or other people's expectations define him.
We also get into Boy in Jeans, Brockhampton, Tyler the Creator's unexpected DM, writing four songs on Cowboy Carter, the making of "Bruises Off the Peach," and his new album Sweet Fortune.
And The Writer Is... Ryan Beatty!
Subscribe for more conversations with the artists, songwriters and producers shaping music.
Follow us: @andthewriteris
A special thank you to our sponsors:
NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association
Splice — the best sample library on the market. Period.
Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:36 The Greek, Hollywood Bowl & Pokémon evolutions
3:08 Being made fun of for singing
4:09 “I refuse to continue just being one thing”
8:32 Why being hard to define is freedom
9:52 How Ryan approaches a songwriting session
11:52 Teach people how to treat you
13:43 “I’m grateful I’ve never had a hit record”
14:12 What success feels like vs. what it looks like
20:08 “I didn’t feel smart enough to be a songwriter”
20:55 Boy in Jeans — finding his voice as a songwriter
26:42 Jack Antonoff and an unexpected Broadway placement
27:30 NMPA + Splice
29:19 His advice for artists going viral
31:55 The moment he decided to do it his way
34:06 Brockhampton, Kevin Abstract & finding confidence
37:05 Why Ryan never pitches songs
40:43 Tyler, The Creator’s unexpected DM
42:35 Dreaming of David, touring & burnout
44:52 Making “Bruises Off the Peach”
48:17 Finding his actual singing voice
50:30 Cowboy Carter — four songs, told nobody
54:30 Making Sweet Fortune & chasing timelessness
57:32 How he wants listeners to see themselves in his songs
59:36 Amy Allen, Clairo & making the studio a place of joy
1:04:25 “Doing this is scary for me”
Credits
Hosted by Ross Golan
Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad
Edited by Jad Saad
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Ep. 261: Travis Barker | Survival and Building a Legendary Career out of the Ashes
Today's guest is the drummer who took punk out of the garage, put it on your radio, then on MTV, then on your body. But his real story isn't the discography. It's what he did with everything that was supposed …
Shownotes
Today's guest is the drummer who took punk out of the garage, put it on your radio, then on MTV, then on your body. But his real story isn't the discography. It's what he did with everything that was supposed to end him.
From a four-piece kit in Fontana to the center of the album cover, Travis carries three things simultaneously that most musicians never figure out how to hold at once: the craft of writing a drum part as a hook — singing it in his head before his hands ever get there; the conviction that no genre gets to own him, and no one else gets to write his ending; and the contrarian edge to ban Auto-Tune, editing, and drum samples from his own studio at the exact moment the rest of the industry is sprinting toward machine-clean.
And The Writer Is... Travis Barker!
Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.
Join us on Patreon: patreon.com/andthewriteris
We're giving away 4 pieces of premium recording gear on zoom on August 25th! Join Patreon for details.
Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris
A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible. Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us. And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period.
CHAPTERS
0:00 Intro
1:51 Why the documentary sat for nine years
3:18 The producers pitch an ending: "Can you just walk onto a plane?"
4:51 Survivor's guilt: "They wouldn't want me to sit here and not fly again"
6:33 "The doc was dead to me" — and living your life like it's a movie
9:41 "I don't make beats." "Now you do. I need it in two days."
12:23 Beastie Boys, Bad Brains, Buck Owens — refusing the box
15:28 The drums are a hook, not a timekeeper
15:54 "That's not music" — the teacher who wouldn't teach him rock
17:25 How he actually writes a part: "I sing it in my head"
18:21 Learning the whole blink-182 set in an hour
21:29 Trash men in Laguna, and one store that sold their tape
22:52 The untitled album, and the day the process changed
25:57 The lyrics he wrote: "We'll have Halloween on Christmas"
27:15 "I Miss You" — the loop he had to convince them to keep
28:07 "You have to put your ego away to be a drummer who's a songwriter"
35:46 The burn center: "How am I going to play drums?"
36:25 The hand he couldn't feel, and why he told no one
43:20 "Too heavy for blink" — Boxcar Racer, and Mark
56:30 "There was no therapy for what happened"
1:10:19 What drummers should actually practice
1:19:29 AI: "I hate it" — no Auto-Tune, no editing, no samples
1:31:20 "All the Small Things" — the day Tom told him to open the valve
1:33:33 "Where's all the hits?" — the note that made Rock Show and First Date
1:35:15 "One More Time": writing about your own band breaking up
Credits:
Hosted by Ross Golan
Produced by Joe London and Jad Saad
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Ep. 260: Role Model | Being Discovered by Mac Miller & How Getting Signed Changed His Music
Today's guest is an artist most people meet through the bit: the deadpan internet, the cowboy suit, the one-sided war he's been waging with Harry Styles for a year that Harry Styles knows nothing about. So this …
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Today's guest is an artist most people meet through the bit: the deadpan internet, the cowboy suit, the one-sided war he's been waging with Harry Styles for a year that Harry Styles knows nothing about.
So this is the other version of him. A kid in Pittsburgh with a borrowed mic and beats ripped off YouTube, broke and failing out of school, who gets a message that Mac Miller loves a song off his first EP — and uses those three days in LA to convince his parents to let him drop out.
It's also one of the more honest conversations we've had about what the industry's upgrades actually cost you. Not the version where getting signed is the happy ending — the version where the nice studio, the engineer recording your vocals, and the A&R in your ear slowly make music that isn't yours. Chuck Timely & The Hourglass is what's on the other side of that: a record about time, made by someone who spent years trying to get his own back. And the only person who ever told him not to make it was his mother.
And The Writer Is... Role Model!
A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible.
Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us.
And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period.
They are also maybe the only ethical ai-integrated sample library and they pay creators for using their work in the new Variations update and beyond.
Chapters
0:00 Intro
2:00 The year-long war with Harry Styles that Harry Styles knows nothing about
2:41 Mac Miller and Odd Future on Vine are why he finally said yes to TikTok
3:33 The message about "Stolen Car" that came while he was failing out of school
15:01 "Did you scrub the internet?" — "Yes. Because I was embarrassed."
16:13 "I was trying to impress a label. I just made shitty music."
24:16 A 16-year-old in Portland, Maine, and an EP made entirely over email
25:44 The labels start calling: "I was a sitting duck"
27:01 The studio trap — how nice rooms take the music out of your hands
28:01 The two EPs he's blocked out: "I don't remember making that music"
28:54 Why he won't pitch songs to other artists
31:06 The 80s synth album they made for two months and scrapped
34:33 The two rules: no synths, no drum machines
35:06 His mom: "There's country in it? Your fans are gonna hate that."
37:39 "Sally," written in the 30 minutes a session ran short
42:09 "But who is Chuck?" — inventing Chuck Timely
47:12 Ross defines a good song: "This will piss off a lot of people"
53:10 What he'd say to Mac Miller
54:44 "Look at That Woman" started as a joke — and why the loose ones win
56:27 The permission Kansas Anymore gave other songwriters
Credits:
Hosted by Ross Golan
Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
And The Update Is...Suno Loses Copyright Case, Spotify Hits 300M & YouTube Music Dominates
And The Update Is…a weekly beat on the industry . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Ep. 259: Jessi Alexander on Writing "The Climb" The Week She Almost Quit... + What It Takes To Last as a Nashville Songwriter
Today's guest wrote "The Climb." She also wrote "I Drive Your Truck," "Mine Would Be You," "Don't Think Jesus," and "Ain't No Love in Oklahoma." But her real story isn't the hits. It's the ten years before the …
Shownotes
Today's guest wrote "The Climb." She also wrote "I Drive Your Truck," "Mine Would Be You," "Don't Think Jesus," and "Ain't No Love in Oklahoma." But her real story isn't the hits. It's the ten years before the first one, the five years after it when the phone stopped ringing, and what she figured out in between about how to actually last in this business.
From a dropped record deal and years as what she calls a washed-up artist nobody would write with, to Song of the Year, a Grammy nomination, and a run of hits she wrote while raising three kids under three. She carries three things at once that almost no writer figures out how to hold together: a working method she can actually teach, a conviction that this is a calling and not a job, and a refusal to write the safe version of anything.
And The Writer Is... Jessi Alexander!
Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.
Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris
A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible.
Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us.
0:00 Intro
0:48 Her favorite non-songwriting songwriter trick
1:54 "How do you make unavailable country men emotional?"
5:33 The five songs on her Hall of Fame plaque
11:07 Pool halls and stick shifts: "that color is what I draw from"
12:42 The artist deal that fizzled — "I wasn't the artist type"
13:31 No man's land: "no one took me seriously, I was a washed-up artist"
14:01 The insane story behind writing The Climb: "just another damn day"
20:11 Bud Light, a guitar pull, and a British director
22:07 Being told The Climb would change her life "Sir, that doesnt happen to people like me"
28:08 Nashville still said No
30:38 Getting men to sing: long notes and the falsetto flip
31:44 "What part of their tool belt have they not used?"
34:32 The professor who told her to quit school
36:18 Her album, the mergers, and Redneck Woman
40:27 New mom: "they'll just put someone else in my spot"
45:30 Good mom or good at work — never both
46:16 2015 to 2020: "the water just turned off"
48:23 Advice for the writer whose phone stopped ringing
50:24 The song that rang every bell
57:21 Concept-first or melody-first: "I'm the director"
61:16 Songwriters own it. Screenwriters sell it.
64:16 Imposter syndrome and the Billy Strings answer
65:24 What makes Morgan Wallen great
69:46 "I don't like to not know where all the bodies are buried"
71:43 I Drive Your Truck (Crazy story)
74:37 Her granddad's truck in the driveway
75:44 "Call in the third. Call in the fourth. Call in the 10th."
76:46 No #1 party until they found him
80:36 The truck-song traffic jam they were worried sick about
85:38 "Keep your head down." Still the only answer.
Credits:
Hosted by Ross Golan
Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
And The Update Is…Labels Rein In AI, Miley Signs to Atlantic & Deezer Turns a Profit
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Ep. 258: Suki Waterhouse on Loveland, Motherhood, and Finding Her People
Today's guest is a songwriter four albums deep, with a song that's been picking up new listeners for nine years and Mick Fleetwood playing on her latest record. But her real story isn't any of that.From weekend …
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Today's guest is a songwriter four albums deep, with a song that's been picking up new listeners for nine years and Mick Fleetwood playing on her latest record. But her real story isn't any of that.
From weekend stage camps in West London to opening Wembley for Taylor Swift five months after giving birth, she spent a decade releasing roughly one song a year into near silence. What kept her going wasn't a plan — it was a pair of collaborators who got nothing back for years and got up and made something every day anyway.
This is an honest conversation about what a long stretch of nobody listening actually feels like, and what happens when the proof finally shows up on a timeline you didn't choose.
And The Writer Is... Suki Waterhouse!
Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.
Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris
A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible.
Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us.
And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period.
They've developed a Sounds plugin that allows creators to actually get paid for derivatively generated work from their art, and they have paid out $100M+ to artists already since inception.
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:46 How's being a parent and doing music?
1:18 "Being a parent is only hard for good parents"
2:49 "The girl with the guitar" — how her daughter describes her job
4:30 Test-driving album demos on a toddler in her "no" phase
12:44 Somewhere Over the Rainbow — and losing to the girl who sang All Saints
14:38 The voice teacher who told her she was too skinny to sing
15:58 "I was angry. I had this huge fire in me."
16:42 The friend group that turned on her: "fuck this school, fuck these people"
26:45 "You walk through open doors" — model, actor, musician
28:56 "Brutally," 2016, and ten years of making things nobody heard
31:01 Advice to a young female artist: learn to produce, even basically
32:56 "I went hunting for my fucking tribe. And I found them."
35:54 Amy Winehouse at the pub, The Libertines, and a London scene that's gone
38:12 Backstage at a Jake Bugg show — meeting Natalie and Jules at eighteen
39:23 "They got zero back for years and years and years"
42:45 Extreme ADHD, a giant sitar, and a fight over a song
46:26 December 7th: flying to London for a song that didn't exist yet
47:16 The pact: "if we're not writing something brilliant, we're not carrying it on"
47:28 The worst audition of her life, in the dark
48:09 A Wurlitzer, a Mellotron, and the song that opens the album
1:01:39 "Good Looking" — top ten on TikTok, written nine years ago
1:05:53 Covid, Daisy Jones, and deciding to just make the record
1:06:32 Every label said no except Sub Pop
1:08:40 "It's nothing about what happens in the first week"
1:10:16 "Dangerous Woman" and a song that gains meaning over time
1:11:38 Daisy Jones: "my name wasn't on the list and I was fucking pissed"
1:16:24 "You're more envious of the check than the song"
1:26:14 What makes a good song — Beck, Elliott Smith, and roughness
1:29:26 Red Rocks with no ear monitors: "I was in insane debt"
1:32:04 Opening for Taylor Swift at Wembley
1:34:17 Hayley Williams: "this one's for Mr. Waterhouse"
1:37:02 A baby in March, a record in September
1:39:44 "When everyone goes a bit red — that's when you keep it in the song"
1:40:35 What to play driving at night, heartbroken, walking through London
Credits:
Hosted by Ross Golan
Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
And The Update Is…Spotify Goes MTV, Triller Gets Sued & AI Floods the Industry
And The Update Is…a weekly beat on the industry . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Ep. 257: Adam Lambert on Idol, Fronting Queen, and Opting Out of the Industry Game
Today's guest is one of the great voices of his generation — the theater kid who auditioned for American Idol with Michael Jackson, watched the judges' faces fall, and demanded a second song because he'd just …
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Today's guest is one of the great voices of his generation — the theater kid who auditioned for American Idol with Michael Jackson, watched the judges' faces fall, and demanded a second song because he'd just quit his job and had no health insurance. But his real story isn't the voice. It's the game — the one Freddie Mercury wrote about, the one that picks your singles, writes your headlines, and decides who you are before you do.
And The Writer Is... Adam Lambert!
In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on:
The AMA kiss that blew up a $500,000 single launch — "everyone was going, oh shit"
Quitting Wicked — and losing his health insurance — to audition, then refusing the judges' no
Why Kara DioGuardi 'busted his balls all season'
What Brian May says "Play the Game" was really about
Signed before the finale even aired: why losing Idol never mattered
and much more.
Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.
Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris
A special thank you to our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association.
0:00 Intro
1:09 The album is out — why self-titled, "first name basis"
2:35 Meeting Pete Nappi through a pandemic song still in the vault
3:39 "Am I Okay" — written one week after the breakup
6:02 Singles made him "crazy" — the label picks that flopped: "I told you so"
7:04 Leaning into what fans expect vs. challenging them
8:16 Proud of the flops, indifferent to some hits
9:34 Theater kids: every album is a character, every record a world
11:28 The dystopian cover — "I want it blasted into the future"
13:55 Adam Lambert or Freddie Mercury? "I feel like it's me"
15:35 Coffee with Freddie — what Brian says "Play the Game" was really about
16:56 "The music industry is a big old game, isn't it?"
17:43 A college-DJ dad, a Sly Stone mom, and a kid screaming through the house
19:46 The Fiddler note where everybody went "oh, wow"
21:03 San Diego to LA at 19 — math knocked him off the college path
23:00 Weed, poetry, and GarageBand
25:49 Wicked: six months, burnt out, and a new plan
29:20 Inside the Idol machine — two camps, two agendas
32:49 The Burning Man epiphany that vanquished the fear
34:39 No job, no insurance, and judges who didn't get Rock With You
35:11 "I didn't really ask" — the second song that changed everything
36:22 Why Idol can't break artists anymore
38:04 Honey water: the whiskey story behind Kara DioGuardi's grudge
41:21 Justin Timberlake tells him to remake A Night at the Opera
42:06 Losing the finale — already signed before it aired
47:20 The blog photos drop: "Yeah, that's me. Get over it."
51:53 The AMA kiss and the $500,000 single
53:22 What Do You Want From Me — the P!nk demo
56:00 Singing uncredited on Avicii's "Lay Me Down"
59:03 "It takes a village — bring them with you"
60:26 Max Martin: "When you get on stage, I don't have to worry"
61:26 How Queen actually made the call
62:07 Trespassing hits #1 — a first he didn't know he'd made
62:48 The poster-child years: "the headline is that I'm gay, and no one's talking about the music"
66:11 Trespassing, the "bipolar album" — his half vs. the label's half
67:20 Two months with the Wolf Cousins — why his songs didn't make the cut
70:05 The Ghost Town gamble — "you've got to do something drastic"
72:44 Songs with no home — "throwing my ideas into space"
76:03 Velvet dies to Covid, two weeks in
76:52 A Telefunken, YouTube tutorials, and teaching himself Logic
77:51 The secret musical: 20 songs written over Zoom
82:45 Identity vs. brand — "the personality precedes the skill"
83:35 Songwriters don't get paid for their time — the union conversation
87:37 Giving his co-writers master points — "it's just classy, man"
88:28 Where the stage presence actually comes from
90:13 The hardest part of fame
93:06 "I nitpick the negative" — showing the uglier side for the first time
96:28 Is Ozempic killing LA nightlife?
Credits:
Hosted by Ross Golan
Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad
Edited by Jad Saad
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
SUNO Sued, Ai Labels, Resale Ticket Act, Choosin Texas Stays Ontop
And The Update Is…a weekly beat on the industry . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Rewind: The Benny Blanco Episode [Patreon Exclusive]
Today's episode is a rewind to our conversation with Benny Blanco.To hear the rest of this episode, join our Patreon, where you'll find our full library of archived episodes with legends like Babyface, Shania …
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Today's episode is a rewind to our conversation with Benny Blanco.
To hear the rest of this episode, join our Patreon, where you'll find our full library of archived episodes with legends like Babyface, Shania Twain, Sabrina Carpenter, Benny Blanco, and many more. Members also get access to our monthly Writers Room on Zoom, where we play your demos and answer your biggest industry questions.
We hope to see you there.
Thank you for listening to And The Writer Is.
And The Writer Is...
is presented by the National Music Publishers' Association
Hosted by Ross Golan
Produced by Joe London and Jad Saad
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Ep. 256: Gavin Rossdale (Bush) | "Glycerine" & Surviving the '90s
Today's guest is the frontman of Bush, one of the defining voices of '90s alternative rock and the "feral," self-flagellating songwriter underneath them, who still claws through every blank page 30 years in and …
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Today's guest is the frontman of Bush, one of the defining voices of '90s alternative rock and the "feral," self-flagellating songwriter underneath them, who still claws through every blank page 30 years in and can't tell you how he does it.
From a broken home at 12 to painting dentists' offices after he'd already made 16 Stone, Gavin carries three things simultaneously that most rock legends never figure out how to hold at once: the craft of a lifelong student who still writes out scales to get better, the conviction to bet on analog human perspective in the age of AI, and the contrarian refusal to romanticize any of it — "it's a perpetual UFC octagon."
This is one of the more honest conversations about longevity, survival, and what it actually costs to keep creating after the era that made you has moved on — and buried some of the people who defined it. When the confidence and the insecurity are the same engine, who do you become?
And The Writer Is... Gavin Rossdale!
Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.
Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris
A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible.
Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us.
Hosted by Ross Golan
Produced by Joe London and Jad Saad
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
And The Update Is...Fake Streams, Billion-Dollar Deals & Ed Sheeran's Biggest Career Move Yet
And The Update Is…a weekly beat on the industry . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Ep. 255: Brittany Howard | How Alabama Shakes Went From a Garbage Truck to Playing with Prince
Today's guest is Brittany Howard — four-time Grammy winner, the voice of Alabama Shakes, and one of the most singular artists of her generation. But her real story isn't the accolades or the sold-out rooms …
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Today's guest is Brittany Howard — four-time Grammy winner, the voice of Alabama Shakes, and one of the most singular artists of her generation. But her real story isn't the accolades or the sold-out rooms. It's a single-wide trailer, a junkyard full of animals, and a garbage truck — and a woman who never once chased any of it.
From a Cotton Patch trailer park to Paisley Park, Brittany built a career by refusing to do it the way you're supposed to. She carries three things simultaneously that most artists never figure out how to hold at once: an obsessive craftsman's ear (she'll stab an amp with a screwdriver to find a tone), an unbudging authenticity (she showed up to the deal that changed her life hungover, in her pajamas, in a mail truck), and a total indifference to the machine (0% involvement in her own charts, streams, and licensing).
This is one of the more honest conversations we've had about staying true to yourself in music.
And The Writer Is... Alabama Shakes!
Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.
Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris
A special thank you to our sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers Association. Your support means the world to us.
Timestamps
0:00 Intro
2:09 Is hunting for tone a fool's errand?
4:02 "Happy accidents" — taste vs. preference
6:22 Stabbing an amp with a screwdriver for the perfect tone
9:02 Born in a single-wide in Cotton Patch trailer park
10:53 "Are we rich now?" — a junkyard, 96 cats, 26 dogs
12:53 Picking up guitar out of necessity (she wanted to play bass)
17:00 Recording songs at 12 on Audacity, alone in the woods
18:45 The At the Drive-In shirt — meeting Zach
19:33 Mom: "I didn't know you could sing" / "Me either"
20:46 Her first song ever
28:59 The label meeting: hungover, in pajamas, in a mail truck
32:22 Writing "Hold On" in a garbage truck
33:27 Making up the whole song live on stage at The Brick
37:06 How a record deal did (and didn't) change how she lived
44:01 "Do I have any money?" — buying her first house
46:07 Meeting Shawn Everett & Blake Mills for Sound & Color
52:51 Talking to Prince on the phone — and his list of rules
54:17 Playing "Gimme All Your Love" with Prince — "did he change his mind?"
56:49 How Alabama Shakes came back together
59:15 Rapid fire + "Leave music to the people who love music"
Credits
Hosted by Ross Golan
Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad
Edited by Jad Saad
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
And The Update Is...Spotify Deletes 500K Streams ,TIDAL Takes a Stand Against AI,The Charts Have a New Enemy
And The Update Is…a weekly beat on the industry . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
And The update Is...AI Lawsuits Are Coming, Clive Davis Remembered & Olivia Rodrigo Makes History
And The Update Is…a weekly beat on the industry . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Ep. 254: Zooey Deschanel | Her Secret Identity + The Journey of She & Him
Today's guest is one of the most recognizable faces of her generation — an actor whose voice you'd know in a single frame. But her real story isn't the one you've watched. It's the one she kept secret: for 20 …
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Today's guest is one of the most recognizable faces of her generation — an actor whose voice you'd know in a single frame. But her real story isn't the one you've watched. It's the one she kept secret: for 20 years she's been a songwriter, and barely anyone — even people who know her — knew it.
This is one of the more honest conversations we've had about being underestimated — as an actor who "couldn't" really be a musician, and as a woman the industry assumed didn't write her own songs — and about what it costs to keep making things purely because you love them.
And The Writer Is... Zooey Deschanel of She & Him!
In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on:
- Why she erased social media off her own devices
- The "industry plant" myth — why the industry "can't make anything happen" anymore
- Being told "you'll never make a record, no one will take you seriously" as an actor
- Her "secret agent" identity
- The misogyny she goes to bat against
- Her North Star she chases
- And much more...
Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.
Join our Patreon for special access, bonus conversations, demo playing opportunities, and guest hangs!
patreon.com/andthewriteris
Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris
A special thank you to our lead sponsor NMPA for making these conversations possible.
NMPA is the National Music Publishers' Association. They fight for songwriters and they fight for this podcast, too.
Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:00 Meet Zooey Deschanel
1:51 Writing alone — and erasing social media to do it
4:49 Why the "industry plant" is a myth
6:37 "You'll never be taken seriously as a musician"
7:25 Her secret identity as a songwriter
11:15 How She & Him released with no name attached
13:01 "I Thought I Saw Your Face Today" — never a single, now #1 on TikTok
15:35 The story behind writing "I Thought I Saw Your Face Today"
17:24 Her dad, the records, and growing up musical
22:44 Brian Wilson, Gershwin, and the Great American Songbook
26:13 Five desert island albums
28:21 Why "A Hard Day's Night" beats the White Album
30:16 Teaching herself piano at six
32:46 Writing her first song at ten
38:42 "I identify as a songwriter, not an actor"
42:15 Dropping out of Northwestern
45:59 A word from our lead sponsor, NMPA
49:23 Finding her voice in the studio — the mic chain
51:56 Recording with Brian Wilson & the gifted mic
55:57 Why she never sold out — turning in finished records
67:03 The lonely sets where her first two records were written
69:35 Almost Famous & Cameron Crowe
72:50 "I'm allergic to selling myself"
76:19 Nobody believes a woman writes her own songs
79:00 Writing for other artists & how publishing splits really work
82:07 Why she loves writing Christmas songs
84:24 500 Days of Summer & music in film
88:36 The songwriting trick: "What if I am her?"
93:21 Dyslexia, reading scripts & why melody sticks
94:56 Why she doesn't do more theater
98:38 Staying clean through party-era Hollywood
100:50 M. Ward — 20 years, never one fight
109:57 Writing alone when everyone's afraid to
111:43 The biggest misconception about her
114:18 Finding your North Star
Credits:
Hosted by Ross Golan
Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad
Edited by Jad Saad
Watch on Spotify. If you're subscribed to Spotify Premium, you don't get any Spotify ads on our show.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
And The Update Is...Heartbreak In The Writing Community, Chart Toppers & Goats
And The Update Is…a weekly beat on the industry . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Ep. 253: Nessa Barrett on Fame, Music, and Finding Herself in Public
Today's guest built an audience of millions before she was old enough to sign a record deal, turned a 30-minute crying freestyle into her debut single, and made one of Gen Z's defining breakup anthems out of a …
Shownotes
Today's guest built an audience of millions before she was old enough to sign a record deal, turned a 30-minute crying freestyle into her debut single, and made one of Gen Z's defining breakup anthems out of a phrase that became its own internet language. But her real story isn't the viral fame or the streams. It's the part that plays like a runaway and teaches like a masterclass: how she left home at 17 to chase music, what it costs to become a person in public, and everything about the business nobody explains until you've already survived it.
And The Writer Is... Nessa Barrett!
In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on:
• Why she ran away from home at 17 — a 4AM ticket, six school bags, cops on her trail — to make music
• The truth about "i hope ur miserable until ur dead": she didn't write it, it's not her favorite, and why she sang it anyway
• "pain" — the 30-minute freestyle she cried through in the booth that became her first single
• Why she can't record with Auto-Tune — and what she learned the first time someone handed her a finished song to cut
• Signing to Warner Records on Zoom during Covid — and the messy contract she had to escape first
• "All of my confidence comes from my fans" — the performer who still gets embarrassed easily
• The childhood trauma and the generational cycle she says she's trying to break
• Why she closes her eyes every time she records, and writes a song like she's building a movie
• The lowest point of her career — and how prayer, faith, and going back to her core brought her out of it
• "I've never loved my music as much as this — and I didn't know it could feel this way"
And much more...
🔓 Want in the room? We just launched our Patreon — monthly Zoom hangs where we listen to your demos and give feedback, hang with you directly, occasional guest drop-ins, and the full archive of 200+ audio episodes (Sabrina Carpenter, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Shania Twain, Babyface, and more).
https://www.patreon.com/andthewriteris
Watch on Spotify. Spotify subscribers get fewer ads on my video.
Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris
A special thank you to our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers Association. Your support means the world to us.
Chapters
0:00 Intro — her whole journey has been public
1:37 The cafeteria TikTok that blew up
2:48 A childhood with no stability
3:45 "A lot of trauma — that's what drove me here"
4:20 Why she chose to be open about her struggles
6:50 Music as her safe place + her dad's makeshift studio
9:22 Her first recording, at four years old
10:56 Walking into a real LA studio, terrified
12:21 Songwriting as a diary
14:17 The tell-all she might publish under an alias
17:30 Join the conversation on Patreon
18:21 Stage fright, bullying, and the voice crack
20:34 "All my confidence comes from my fans"
23:44 From cafeteria TikToks toward LA
28:59 Running away at 4AM — the plane ticket story
32:54 Landing at the Sway House at 17
34:54 First sessions, jxdn, and singing other people's songs
36:34 Why she can't record with Auto-Tune
38:07 NMPA: why publishers fight for songwriters
38:49 Learning to ask for what she wanted in the booth
42:24 "pain" — the 30-minute freestyle that became her first song
45:02 Signing to Warner Records on Zoom
50:19 The public breakup, and hearing old songs differently
51:32 "i hope ur miserable until ur dead" — singer vs. listener
54:07 The truth about who wrote her biggest song
55:50 Breaking away from the influencer label
59:06 Building a sonic world — writing like a movie
63:45 Why she closes her eyes every time she records
64:10 Five movies that shape her sound
65:12 Acting, directing, and what still scares her
68:16 The new era: falling back in love with music
70:18 Rapid fire
71:27 The lowest point — and how she came back
74:49 What younger Nessa would admire most
77:19 A message to her parents
78:55 "I've never loved my music as much as this"
79:31 TAPENOTES: Ross & Joe break down the episode
Credits:
Hosted by Ross Golan
Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad
Edited by Jad Saad
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
And The Update Is...Taylor & Drake Make History, AI Makes Headlines
And The Update Is…a weekly beat on the industry . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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