Would Australia choose Indonesia over America?

"There was that great quip from Henry Kissinger in the 1970s: if I want to talk to Europe, who do I call? "Now, of course, the answer to that question at the time and for long afterwards was Washington. If you want to talk to Europe, called Washington. In a strategic sense, Washington was the leader."What the United States is doing under Donald Trump is actually forcing that question to the forefront again, because if the Americans really are threatening to pull back, as they realistically might under Donald Trump, then it revives that question. "And you could argue that the European statecraft in this period, even under the the worst, most egregious provocations from Donald Trump and his team, that kind of genuflecting to Washington has been an attempt, an extended attempt to continue to defer that question."Every second Thursday, Sam Roggeveen and Hugh White discuss major developments in international affairs affecting Australia and the region, from an Australian perspective.Compelling conversation, engaging debate and insightful perspectives. This series provides expert insights into Australia’s future in a changing world.