Between The Covers : Conversations with Writers in Fiction, Nonfiction & Poetry
- Episodes
- 359
- Released
- every two weeks
- Latest episode
- Nov 10, 2026
About the podcast
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License: ©David Naimon, all rights reserved
Episodes 359
From the Archives: Abdellah Taïa : A Country for Dying
Today’s conversation is an archival recording from 2021 with the Moroccan writer and filmmaker Abdellah Taïa discussing his novel A Country For Dying, translated by Emma Ramadan and winner of the 2021 PEN …
Show notes
Today’s conversation is an archival recording from 2021 with the Moroccan writer and filmmaker Abdellah Taïa discussing his novel A Country For Dying, translated by Emma Ramadan and winner of the 2021 PEN Translation Award. We talk about voice in relation to self, story in relation to truth, writing in one’s second language, particularly a language imposed by colonization, about making that tongue bend to one’s reality, about being both Muslim and gay (as well as being the first openly homosexual Arab writer from Morocco), about why it is important not to write characters who are good, or only so, about Isabelle Adjani, the Zulawski film Possession, the role of possession and djinns in his work, and about creating a literature that does not itself come from literature, that does not come from books or speak to them.
A great complement to today’s conversation with Abdellah is the hour-long conversation with his translator Emma Ramadan which joins the Between the Covers bonus audio archive. Emma talks about what attracts her to Abdellah’s writing, about the resonances she sees between his work and that of Marguerite Duras, about the challenges of bringing his work into English, about translating explicit sex scenes, gender pronouns and gendered words, about sexism in the translation industry, about the benefits of co-translation, and about the relationship of translation to the body. To find out how to subscribe to the bonus audio and the many other potential benefits of becoming a listener-supporter of the show head over to the Between the Covers Patreon Page.
Don’t miss the BookShop associated with today’s conversation, as well as, for your more general book needs, the Milkweed Editions Bookshop bookstore.
Writing in the Hour of Genocide with Lena Khalaf Tuffaha & Omar El Akkad
Today’s episode, recorded live at the 2nd annual Portland Poetry Confluence, is a conversation between two National Book Award winners, Lena Khalaf Tuffaha in poetry and Omar El Akkad in prose. We use the essay …
Show notes
Today’s episode, recorded live at the 2nd annual Portland Poetry Confluence, is a conversation between two National Book Award winners, Lena Khalaf Tuffaha in poetry and Omar El Akkad in prose. We use the essay “Notes on Craft: Writing in the Hour of Genocide,” by Palestinian poet and performance artist Fargo Tbakhi, as a frame under which to look at writing at a time of great political urgency within their respective genres. Questions of audience and address, silence and silencing, gestures on the page and gestures in the world, and how to continue to make art at a time when everything is moving decidedly the wrong way. Today’s conversation was conceived by Literary Portland for Palestine and raised money for two Palestinian families supported by Creators for Gaza.
If you enjoyed today’s conversation consider supporting the Portland Poetry Confluence and Creators for Gaza in your holiday giving. And consider joining the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter. One of many potential benefits and rewards of doing so is access to the bonus audio archive with contributions from Omar El Akkad, Isabella Hammad, Dionne Brand, Christina Sharpe, and Layli Long Soldier among many others. Find out more at the show’s Patreon page.
Lastly, here is the conversation-specific BookShop for today’s episode (and for your general book needs don’t miss Milkweed Editions’ own Bookshop).
Milkweed Live: Ursula K. Le Guin Conversations on Writing with David Naimon & Lidia Yuknavitch
Ursula K. Le Guin titled her introduction to Ursula K. Le Guin: Conversations on Writing “Fear and Loathing in the Interview,” and in it she said: “The good interview is like a good badminton rally: you know …
Show notes
Ursula K. Le Guin titled her introduction to Ursula K. Le Guin: Conversations on Writing “Fear and Loathing in the Interview,” and in it she said: “The good interview is like a good badminton rally: you know right away that the two of you can keep that birdie in the air, and all you have to do is watch it fly. Facing each other for the first time in one of KBOO’s lovable, terminally funky recording rooms, David and I were a bit stiff and shy, but we soon got going, and I knew our bird was on the wing.”
Lidia Yuknavitch, whose own life, like mine, intersected with Ursula’s, and whose writing engages with and is enlivened by Ursula’s work, joined me at Powell’s Bookstore in downtown Portland to celebrate the launch of the reissue of this book. Together we explore Ursula’s thoughts on craft, on prose versus poetry, fantasy versus realism, the political in relation to the artistic, and her fascinating relationship to her own imperfections, namely how she enacted self-revision while facing her reading public.
If you enjoy today’s conversation consider joining the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter. You can find out about all the potential rewards and benefits of doing so at the show’s Patreon page.
Finally, here is the conversation-specific BookShop for today’s episode (and for your more general book shopping needs don’t miss Milkweed Editions Bookshop bookstore as well).
Layli Long Soldier : We
Layli Long Soldier returns to the show to discuss her latest remarkable poetry collection We (and/or Wé). We talk about these two connotations of we/wé, the questions of address, audience, identity and kinship …
Show notes
Layli Long Soldier returns to the show to discuss her latest remarkable poetry collection We (and/or Wé). We talk about these two connotations of we/wé, the questions of address, audience, identity and kinship implicit in them both. We explore the many visual art installations documented within We and how they intersect with both poetry and community. We explore what it means to treat a poem, not yet finished, as having its own desires and needs different than yours. And we look at language and the law, navigating thorny questions of language as a tool and as a weapon when it comes to treaties, to Land Back, and Layli’s art and writing practice engaging with it all.
If you enjoy today’s conversation consider joining the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter. One of the many things you can choose from when you do is access to the bonus audio archive with contributions from many past guests including: Layli Long Soldier, Leanne Betasamosake Simpson, Dionne Brand, Arthur Sze, Ada Limón, Omar El Akkad, Danez Smith, Christina Sharpe, Alice Oswald and many others. Find out more at the show’s Patreon page.
Finally, here is the episode-specific BookShop for today’s conversation with Layli. And for your general book shopping needs, don’t miss Milkweed Editions BookShop as well.
From the Archives : Elvia Wilk : Oval
Today’s unforgettable archival conversation with Elvia Wilk was recorded in-person in 2019 on the occasion of the release of her debut novel Oval. Wilk takes questions of self and other, nature and culture …
Show notes
Today’s unforgettable archival conversation with Elvia Wilk was recorded in-person in 2019 on the occasion of the release of her debut novel Oval. Wilk takes questions of self and other, nature and culture, human and non-human into the dystopic near-future and into the realm of both philosophy and narrative. We discuss her writings outside of the novel about weird fiction, the literary movement called The New Weird, and how she herself often writes about weird (but real) endeavors that blur the natural and the artificial or that flip our preconceptions on our head. From exploitation and exclusion in the art world to global climate apocalypse, Wilk’s weird fiction makes us see the world frightfully anew. As McKenzie Wark says, “J. G. Ballard meets William Gibson meets Jeff VanderMeer. Oval is an up-to-the-minute story about the twilight zones of corporate design, aesthetics, pharmacy, and bioengineering, where there’s nothing consultants won’t break in the quest for ‘innovation.’ What could possibly go wrong? Find out in Elvia Wilk’s crisp and stylish debut book.”
For the bonus audio, Elvia contributed a reading of the first half of a speech she delivered at an ecology symposium, her talk called “Death by Landscape.” This joins an ever-growing archive of contributions from past guests—of readings, translator conversations, craft talks, music, soundscapes and more. To find out how to subscribe to the bonus material and about the other potential benefits and rewards of joining the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter, head over to the show’s Patreon page.
Finally, for your book shopping needs don’t miss Milkweed Editions Bookshop bookstore.
From the Archives : Marlon James : Black Leopard, Red Wolf
Today’s archival episode with Marlon James was recorded in 2019 at the studios of KBOO community radio. Marlon’s latest book The Disappearers has garnered the most talked about book review of this year, from …
Show notes
Today’s archival episode with Marlon James was recorded in 2019 at the studios of KBOO community radio. Marlon’s latest book The Disappearers has garnered the most talked about book review of this year, from the New York Times book critic Dwight Garner (who isn’t known to gush). Not only did he say it should be talked about alongside Faulkner’s Absalom, Absalom, Morrison’s Song of Solomon, and Rushdie’s Midnight’s Children, Garner also called it one of the signal reading experiences of his adult life, a masterpiece, the novel of the decade and possibly of the century so far. The book we discussed seven years ago now, was James’ move into fantasy and myth, a novel that won the 2020 Locus Award for Best Horror, Black Leopard, Red Wolf. The science fiction and fantasy author and critic Amal El-Mohtar, perplexed by all the comparisons of it to George R.R. Martin and J.R.R. Tolkien suggested at the time that it was more as if Toni Morrison had written Ovid’s Metamorphoses: “Painful and strange, full of bodies shifting from personhood into meat, and somehow, always, still, upsettingly beautiful. This isn’t Tolkien’s grief-stricken melancholy, or Martin’s calculating, character-forward plot mechanics; it’s horror and tragedy by way of fantasy, nothing discrete, everything penetrating everything else. Reading Black Leopard, Red Wolf was like being slowly eaten by a bear, one inviting me to feel every pressure of tooth and claw tearing into me, asking me to contemplate the intimacy of violation and occasionally cracking a joke.”
For the bonus audio archive Marlon reads his essay “Why I’m Done Talking About Diversity (or, Why We Should Try an All-White Diversity Panel).” We also added his 2015 Tin House Summer Writing Workshop craft lecture “The 9 and 1/2 Rules of Seduction” to the archive. These join many contributions from past guests including Ted Chiang, China Miéville, N.K. Jemisin, Joe Sacco, Naomi Klein, Carl Phillips, Dionne Brand and many others. To learn about how to subscribe to the bonus audio, as well as about all the other potential benefits and rewards of joining the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter, head over to the show’s Patreon page.
Finally, for your book shopping needs, don’t miss Milkweed Editions bookstore on BookShop.
China Miéville : The Rouse
China Miéville’s much-anticipated new book The Rouse is twenty-one years in the making. He was writing it when he wrote The City & The City and Embassytown. He was writing it when he wrote October: The Story of …
Show notes
China Miéville’s much-anticipated new book The Rouse is twenty-one years in the making. He was writing it when he wrote The City & The City and Embassytown. He was writing it when he wrote October: The Story of the Russian Revolution and A Spectre Haunting: On the Communist Manifesto. He was writing it when he wrote children’s books, comics and his latest collaborative novel with Keanu Reeves. In other words, this novel is not only itself about epochs, and the end of them, but also itself spans many eras and iterations of China’s own life and writing life. Together we look at his many interests over the past two decades—Marxism and monsters, apophatic theology and the nature of consciousness, the failure of language, the power of it, the eerie and spooky, the terror and the horror of all that goes bump in the night—in relation to The Rouse itself.
As part of writing his 1200-page-plus new novel, China read many other big books for inspiration—from Gravity’s Rainbow to Mosquito. For the bonus audio archive China discusses one of his favorite’s: Miss MacIntosh, My Darling by Marguerite Young and reads an excerpt for us. This joins bonus material from many past guests including Ted Chiang, N.K. Jemisin, Carmen Maria Machado, Vajra Chandrasekera, and adrienne maree brown, to name a few. You can find out more about subscribing to the bonus material and about all the other potential benefits and rewards of joining the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter, at the show’s Patreon page.
Finally, don’t miss the BTC BookShop corresponding to today’s conversation, brimming over with all the books China references and discusses today. And while you are at it, for your general book needs, be sure to browse the Milkweed Bookstore BookShop as well.
Milkweed Live : Creature Needs with Thalia Field, David Naimon & Anne de Marcken
Today’s conversation between Thalia Field and David Naimon, moderated by Anne de Marcken, was recorded in February as part of the Pacific Northwest College of Art’s Visual Arts low residency MFA program. Thalia …
Show notes
Today’s conversation between Thalia Field and David Naimon, moderated by Anne de Marcken, was recorded in February as part of the Pacific Northwest College of Art’s Visual Arts low residency MFA program. Thalia and David discuss and explore their pieces within the anthology Creature Needs: Writers Respond to the Science of Animal Conservation, where each writer was given a scientific study to engage with and create art in relation to. As a result, side-blotched lizards, boreal toads and the green cutthroat trout all help make up the cross-species chorus of today’s conversation, one that isn’t just about making art in relation to science, but also about interrogating, through art-making, the assumptions baked into the scientific frame, and using art to reveal the unexamined stories hidden within that frame. Looking at other non-normative modes of scientific inquiry, ones where the line isn’t so bright between art and science, nor the subjective and the so-called objective, Thalia, David and Anne explore the various possibilities and pitfalls for art-makers and writers when engaging with the more-than-human world.
If you enjoyed today’s conversation, consider joining the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter. Find out about all the potential rewards and benefits of doing so at the show’s Patreon page.
Finally, here is the BTC BookShop specific to today’s episode. And don’t miss Milkweed Editions own BookShop bookstore as well.
Hajjar Baban : Low Flying Planes
Today’s guest, poet Hajjar Baban, discusses her truly remarkable debut collection of poetry Low Flying Planes. Together we explore Kurdish poetics, the role of silence, refusal and isolation in her work, the …
Show notes
Today’s guest, poet Hajjar Baban, discusses her truly remarkable debut collection of poetry Low Flying Planes. Together we explore Kurdish poetics, the role of silence, refusal and isolation in her work, the Kurdish Poets Collective, writing lineages, and much more. Selected for the 2025 National Poetry Series by past guest of the show, poet Jake Skeets, Jake says of Low Flying Planes: “…if tradition is to be made whole, if memory, if truth, it begins with a book like this. I’m eager for the world to enter this one and emerge on the other side transformed, into a place where words are both nourished and at stake. I’m eager for this poet, for a new voice that asks us to change. It is my honor to introduce this marvelous work.”
For the bonus audio archive, Hajjar contributes an extended reading of short poems by Eugène Guillevic and a discussion of his influence on her work. This joins readings from everyone from Jorie Graham to Omar El Akkad, Dionne Brand to Isabella Hammad and more. You can learn how to subscribe to the bonus audio and about the other potential benefits and rewards of joining the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter at the show’s Patreon page.
Finally, here is the BTC BookShop specific for today’s episode. And don’t miss Milkweed Editions BookShop as well.
From the Archives : Morgan Parker : Magical Negro
Today’s conversation with poet Morgan Parker was recorded in-person in 2019 and was Morgan’s second appearance on the show. Both conversations with Morgan are unforgettable, so don’t miss her first appearance …
Show notes
Today’s conversation with poet Morgan Parker was recorded in-person in 2019 and was Morgan’s second appearance on the show. Both conversations with Morgan are unforgettable, so don’t miss her first appearance in 2017 after you enjoy today’s episode about Magical Negro. Later that same year Magical Negro won the National Book Critics Circle Award in Poetry. Danez Smith, another past guest of this show, said this about it: “2019 justly belongs to Morgan Parker. Her poems shred me with their intelligence, dark humor and black-hearted vision. Parker is one of this generation’s best minds, able to hold herself and her world, which includes all of us, up to impossible lights, revealing every last bit of our hopes, failings, possibilities and raptures.”
For the bonus audio archive Morgan contributed a reading from her YA novel Who Put this Song on? which joins contributions from Kaveh Akbar, Tommy Pico, Dionne Brand, Nikky Finney, Natalie Diaz and more. To find out about how to subscribe to the bonus audio archive and all the other potential benefits and rewards of joining the Between the Covers community as a listener supporter, head over to the show’s Patreon page.
And don’t miss Milkweed Editions bookstore BookShop for even more books to explore.
Claudia Rankine : Triage
Claudia Rankine first appeared on Between the Covers in 2014 to discuss Citizen: An American Lyric. Our first encounter back then was before January 6th or October 7th, before Trump 1.0 or Trump 2.0, before the …
Show notes
Claudia Rankine first appeared on Between the Covers in 2014 to discuss Citizen: An American Lyric. Our first encounter back then was before January 6th or October 7th, before Trump 1.0 or Trump 2.0, before the public murder of George Floyd or the live-streamed genocide, before the fall of Roe v Wade or the massive worldwide fires felling our forests each summer. Not only do we account for the time since we last talked, Claudia’s powerful new book Triage does this very thing as well. Triage follows the lifelong contentious friendship between The Narrator and The Theorist, a Black woman and nonbinary Palestinian, who have invented a ritual of collapse, falling to the ground each time they see each other. “Collapse was an antidote to an unbearable but borne disturbance we glimpsed in the face of each other,” the narrator says. And “maybe collapsing simply was the easiest way to keep from breaking apart.” Join us as we explore Triage together, and the possibilities of becoming someone else in the face of catastrophic change.
If you enjoyed today’s program consider joining the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter. Find out about all the potential benefits and rewards of doing so—from the Milkweed Early Reader Subscription to access to bonus contributions from everyone from Dionne Brand to Nikky Finney, Isabella Hammad to Omar El Akkad— at the show’s Patreon page.
Finally, to explore the books discussed and referenced in today’s conversation check out the Between the Covers BookShop specific for today’s episode. And don’t miss Milkweed BookShop bookstore as well.
Valeria Luiselli : Beginning Middle End
We welcome back Valeria Luiselli—who first appeared on the show eleven years ago—to discuss her new and truly marvelous novel Beginning Middle End. Much like the shapeshifting god Proteus, who figures …
Show notes
We welcome back Valeria Luiselli—who first appeared on the show eleven years ago—to discuss her new and truly marvelous novel Beginning Middle End. Much like the shapeshifting god Proteus, who figures prominently in this story, Beginning Middle End is many things at once: a road novel, a family drama, a work of climate fiction, a feminist retelling of classical mythology, a novel about writing, about borders and migration, and perhaps even a field guide for the apocalypse, enacting a way to live and love in a time of rupture and unimaginable change. Join Valeria, Proteus, and a host of pre-Socratic philosophers as we follow the novel’s make-shift family, broken apart and now coming back together anew, in a Sicily beset by metamorphic forces, mythic, geologic, and more.
If you enjoy today’s conversation, consider shapeshifting from a listener to a listener-supporter by joining the Between the Covers community. You can find out about all the benefits and rewards of doing so at the show’s Patreon page.
Finally, to explore the many books discussed and referenced in today’s conversation check out the Between the Covers BookShop specific for today’s episode. In addition, don’t miss Milkweed Editions BookShop bookstore as well.
From the Archives : Cristina Rivera Garza : The Taiga Syndrome & The Iliac Crest
Today’s archival conversation, recorded in 2019, is Cristina Rivera Garza’s first unforgettable appearance on the show. We discuss two works of fiction by her, The Taiga Syndrome and The Iliac Crest. Poet …
Show notes
Today’s archival conversation, recorded in 2019, is Cristina Rivera Garza’s first unforgettable appearance on the show. We discuss two works of fiction by her, The Taiga Syndrome and The Iliac Crest. Poet Daniel Borzutsky says of the first, “If The Taiga Syndrome is a book of illness, it’s also about exile, disappearance, borders, love, language and translation, desire, capitalism and its discontents, fairy tales, and what it means to be possessed by the madness of others and the madness of ourselves…There is no one writing novels as phantasmagorically exquisite as Cristina Rivera Garza’s. The Taiga Syndrome, which is both quietly poetic and narratively unhinged, is a crucial addition to her distinguished oeuvre.” And Yuri Herrera says of the second, “An intelligent, beautiful story about bodies disguised as a story about language disguised as a story about night terrors. Cristina Rivera Garza does not respect what is expected of a writer, of a novel, of language. She is an agitator.”
For the bonus audio archive we have an extended conversation with acclaimed translator Suzanne Jill Levine. We explore the pleasures and challenges of translating Cristina’s work; what the collaboration between Suzanne, Cristina and Suzanne’s doctoral student in translating The Taiga Syndrome together looked like; what to expect when pursuing a degree in translation, and more. To learn how to subscribe to the bonus audio, and about the many other potential benefits of joining the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter, head over to the show’s Patreon page.
Eleni Sikelianos : Memory Rehearsal
Today’s guest is writer, poet and translator Eleni Sikelianos. We discuss her hybrid-genre, ancestral memoir Memory Rehearsal, a work that moves between poetry and prose, image and text, human and animal …
Show notes
Today’s guest is writer, poet and translator Eleni Sikelianos. We discuss her hybrid-genre, ancestral memoir Memory Rehearsal, a work that moves between poetry and prose, image and text, human and animal, history and mythology, and perhaps most of all tells the story of a poet’s self-discovery, finding her voice within a dual poetic lineage, within a chorus of remarkable voices, past and present. As Anne Waldman says: “Sikelianos’s voyage is a spiritual quest to untangle a history that only she and only poetry can accomplish. It is a meditation on gender, place, and reclamation, a struggle for a whole vision and version for the writer of her own self and purpose. The genius of this pursuit is staggering. . . .The intricate weaving and array of image and language to get there leaves me breathless. There is nothing like it that I have seen.”
For the bonus audio archive Eleni contributes an electrifying reading from book one of H.D.’s Trilogy, called “The Walls Do Not Fall.” This joins many unforgettable contributions, whether Lisa Robertson reading her translation of the long Baudelaire poem “Hags,” Jorie Graham reading Robert Creeley, Jen Bervin reading Paul Celan, a late night whispered reading by Bhanu Kapil from her writing journal, and much more. To find out how to subscribe to the bonus audio, and about all the other potential benefits and rewards of joining the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter, head over to the show’s Patreon page.
Finally here is the BookShop for today’s conversation.
[Author photo by Laird Hunt]
Lisa Robertson : Riverwork
Lisa Robertson’s Riverwork twins the mysterious disappearance of the great aunt of our protagonist, Lucy Frost, and that same aunt’s interest in a long-disappeared river, buried under the streets of Paris. As …
Show notes
Lisa Robertson’s Riverwork twins the mysterious disappearance of the great aunt of our protagonist, Lucy Frost, and that same aunt’s interest in a long-disappeared river, buried under the streets of Paris. As Lucy searches for traces of her aunt, by attempting to inhabit and complete her work on this long-forgotten river, erased histories about both come to the surface. Today’s unforgettable conversation—whether when talking about laundry or linguistics, text or textile, dust or menses, archivists or troubadours—floods designation, spills over with newly daylighted significations.
For the bonus audio archive Lisa introduces us to and reads her translation of “Hags,” the long poem by Charles Baudelaire that is a germ for both of her novels, The Baudelaire Fractal and Riverwork. This joins many contributions from past guests including Dionne Brand, Christina Sharpe, Canisia Lubrin, Sheila Heti, Leanne Betasamosake Simpson, Bhanu Kapil, Kate Zambreno, Sofia Samatar and many more. To learn how to subscribe to the bonus audio and about the many other potential benefits and rewards of joining the Between the Covers community as a listener support, head over to the show’s Patreon page.
Finally here is the robust and wide-ranging BookShop for today’s conversation.
From the Archives : Richard Powers : The Overstory
Today’s archival episode with Richard Powers, about The Overstory, was recorded in 2019 in the studios of KBOO community radio in Portland, Oregon. Unusually, that same night I appeared with Richard at a live …
Show notes
Today’s archival episode with Richard Powers, about The Overstory, was recorded in 2019 in the studios of KBOO community radio in Portland, Oregon. Unusually, that same night I appeared with Richard at a live ticketed event at Revolution Hall to discuss the same book. Beyond the differences between an intimate one-on-one in-studio conversation (which today’s episode is), and a public-facing live event, where the presence of the audience is palpable and becomes part of the collective rapport we establish, I also developed two discrete lines of inquiry for each conversation respectively. So if you haven’t heard the live conversation (aired in 2023), I highly recommend it as well. Barbara Kingsolver for the New York Times Book Review declares The Overstory—winner of the 2019 Pulitzer Prize in Fiction—a book that accomplishes “what few living writers from either camp, art or science, could attempt. Using the tools of story, he pulls readers heart-first into a perspective so much longer-lived and more subtly developed than the human purview that we gain glimpses of a vast, primordial sensibility.” What does it mean to de-center humans in a story written for a human readership? We explore that together today.
For the bonus audio archive Richard discusses a collaborative tree cantata between musicans and writers, where writers pick their favorite text about trees and the musicians compose music to accompany it. Richard then reads his selection for the project, “Native Trees” by W.S. Merwin. This joins an ever-growing archive of material contributed by past guests, whether Forrest Gander reading poems in collaboration with a lichen scientist or Jorie Graham reading poems about rain by others; whether writing exercises by Lucy Ives, Lily Dunn or Will Alexander, or craft talks by Jeannie Vanasco and Marlon James. To learn how to subscribe to the bonus audio and about the other potential benefits and rewards of joining the Between the Covers community, head over to the show’s Patreon page.
Giada Scodellaro : Ruins, Child
Dionne Brand says of Giada Scodellaro debut novel, winner of the prestigious Novel Prize: “Ruins, Child takes us to the crumbling architecture of a future past; a future past that is possibly now. In this work …
Show notes
Dionne Brand says of Giada Scodellaro debut novel, winner of the prestigious Novel Prize: “Ruins, Child takes us to the crumbling architecture of a future past; a future past that is possibly now. In this work of fractal seeing, we encounter women in lives that are simultaneously lived, reenacted, and observed. Ruins, Child is conceptually rich, prismatic, and choral, embodied, and surreal, cinematic and textual. Giada Scodellaro writes us Black life watching Black life.” In today’s conversation with Giada we look at this singular novel, one that moves less by story than by sound and by image; we look at the politics and poetics of the gaze, at the grammar of film and dance in relation to the the way Giada’s language gestures and flows; at Black artistic lineages, and at this community in her novel, of largely Black women, who film themselves living, and watch themselves on film alive.
For the bonus audio archive, Giada contributes a reading from Dionne Brand’s touchstone collection of poetry Ossuaries. This joins contributions from many past guests including Dionne herself, Christina Sharpe, Nikky Finney, Ada Limón, Lydia Davis, Viet Thanh Nguyen and many others. To learn how to subscribe to the bonus audio and about the many other potential benefits and rewards of joining the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter, head over to the show’s Patreon page.
Finally, here is the BookShop for today.
Saul Williams : Martyr Loser King
Martyr Loser King, the debut graphic novel of poet, musician, actor and director Saul Williams, with art by Morgan Sorne, not only exists in the same world as his feature film Neptune Frost, but also that of …
Show notes
Martyr Loser King, the debut graphic novel of poet, musician, actor and director Saul Williams, with art by Morgan Sorne, not only exists in the same world as his feature film Neptune Frost, but also that of three of his albums, one of his poetry collections and a touring dance performance called The Motherboard Suite. All of these works, in their respective disciplines, explore the distribution of power, the intersection of technology and race, and how our digitally-mediated lives are sustained by the crudest and cruelest of analog exploitations.
In Martyr Loser King we follow two Central African protagonists—a miner of coltan, the trace mineral that powers our smart phones and laptops, and an intersex hacker with designs on the system extracting wealth from their country and people. To borrow words from Saul’s song and poem “Coltan as Cotton,” in today’s conversation we hack into land rights and ownership, faith and morality, masculinity, femininity and sexuality. We hack into the rebellious gene, the storyboard, and the history of revolutions. We hack into the database and the panel marked “survival.”
If you enjoy today’s conversation consider joining the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter. One of the many benefits and rewards you can choose from is access to the bonus audio archive, with contributions from everyone from Dionne Brand to Isabella Hammad, N.K. Jemisin to Danez Smith, Naomi Klein to Viet Thanh Nguyen. You can find out more at the show’s Patreon page.
Finally, here is the BookShop for today’s conversation.
From the Archives : Zadie Smith : Grand Union
Today’s classic episode from the archives with Zadie Smith was recorded in 2019 at the studios of KBOO community radio to discuss her story collection Grand Union. The conversation ranges wildly—from the …
Show notes
Today’s classic episode from the archives with Zadie Smith was recorded in 2019 at the studios of KBOO community radio to discuss her story collection Grand Union. The conversation ranges wildly—from the politics of representation, of being “free to imagine,” to the freedoms we’ve surrendered to surveillance capitalism. It ranges widely because her collection is, in the words of the San Francisco Chronicle an “unusual creature…Between the covers of one book, readers will find such disparate forms as allegory, parable, speculative thriller and satire, as well as shorter incarnations of Smith’s characteristic social comedy . . . Smith’s voracious intellect is on full display.”
If you enjoy today’s conversation consider joining the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter. Find out about all the potential benefits and rewards of doing so at the show’s Patreon page.
Molly Crabapple : Here Where We Live Is Our Country : The Story of the Jewish Bund
One of the elements that makes Molly Crabapple’s latest book so remarkable is, not only the remarkable stories it unearths and retells, but more specifically how she tells these stories, these erased stories …
Show notes
One of the elements that makes Molly Crabapple’s latest book so remarkable is, not only the remarkable stories it unearths and retells, but more specifically how she tells these stories, these erased stories, these stories meant to be forgotten. Not only does she tell them in a dynamic, often thrilling, way, she also does so in a way that somehow opens up the history and gifts it to contemporary movements, organizers and their artists. You can feel how alive to the moment Molly’s book of history is in the words of everyone who praises it. Whether Naomi Klein calling it a “gripping, human story of love, idealism and betrayal” or Tareq Baconi “a road map for our revolution today” and we explore this together—how to write, in whatever genre, in a way that offers one’s work to anti-colonial movements of liberation.
A great conversation to pair today’s with is the recent episode with Jordy Rosenberg, who asks many of these same questions, but within the realm of fiction. After Jordy and my conversation had aired, Jordy sent me a second contribution to the bonus audio archive, a reading of the Palestinian writer and performance artist Fargo Tbakhi’s “Notes on Craft: Writing in the Hour of Genocide.” This joins many contributions from past guests whether from Naomi Klein, Dionne Brand, Isabella Hammad, or Omar El Akkad. You can check out all the potential rewards and benefits of joining the Between the Covers community, including access to the bonus audio archive, at the show’s Patreon page.
Finally here is the BookShop for today.
Lily Brooks-Dalton : Ruins
Lily Brooks-Dalton’s Ruins is both a cleverly plotted page-turner, and an emotionally engaging, character-driven novel with an unforgettable protagonist; it’s both erudite and a wild ride, inviting and yet …
Show notes
Lily Brooks-Dalton’s Ruins is both a cleverly plotted page-turner, and an emotionally engaging, character-driven novel with an unforgettable protagonist; it’s both erudite and a wild ride, inviting and yet mysterious, only slowly revealing its cards. Through the lens of archaeology, Ruins explores how cultures construct history and shape memory, and through our prickly protagonist Ember, the difficulties and rewards of questioning the beliefs we’ve inherited.
Today’s conversation, beyond delving into the themes and narrative of Ruins, also is a deep dive into craft, particularly exploring a writer’s considerations when it comes to plotting. As part of that discussion, we not only discuss Lily’s sensibilities when it comes to her three successful novels, but we also talk about two completed novels that never coalesced and why that might be. For the bonus audio archive, Lily contributes a reading from the opening of one of these novels we will never see. This joins bonus readings from everyone from Ted Chiang to N.K. Jemisin, adrienne maree brown to Dionne Brand. You can find out how to subscribe to the bonus audio, and about all the other potential benefits of joining the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter, at the show’s Patreon page.
Finally, here is the BookShop for today’s conversation.
From the Archives : Ted Chiang : Exhalation
Excited to share this classic episode from the archives with one of the great short storytellers of our time, Ted Chiang. This conversation happened in 2019 at the studios of KBOO community radio in Portland …
Show notes
Excited to share this classic episode from the archives with one of the great short storytellers of our time, Ted Chiang. This conversation happened in 2019 at the studios of KBOO community radio in Portland, Oregon. Blake Crouch speaking of Exhalation, the book we discuss today, says “Ted Chiang has no contemporary peers when it comes to the short story form. His name deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Carver, Poe, Borges, and Kafka. Every story is a universe. Every story is a diamond. You will inhale Exhalation in a single, stunned sitting, because true genius doesn’t come along nearly as often as advertised. This is the real thing.”
For the bonus audio archive Ted contributed a reading of his essay “Silicon Valley Is Turning into its Own Worst Fear,” first published at Buzzfeed, an essay exploring the reasons why Silicon Valley might particularly fear superintelligent A.I. and how credible those fears really are. This joins contributions from everyone from N.K. Jemisin to Daniel Jose Older to Vajra Chandrasekera. You can find out how to subscribe to the bonus audio, and about the other potential rewards and benefits of joining the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter, at the show’s Patreon page.
Jordy Rosenberg : Night Night Fawn
Today’s conversation with Jordy Rosenberg is many things but at its heart it explores the question of what it means to write revolutionary literature (or as Trotsky would call it “October literature”). Whether …
Show notes
Today’s conversation with Jordy Rosenberg is many things but at its heart it explores the question of what it means to write revolutionary literature (or as Trotsky would call it “October literature”). Whether we are talking about trans horror or a Marxist surreal, the originating violence of early capitalism or writing toward utopian horizons; whether we are getting granular on the level of craft and form or looking more broadly at the role of art and artists, the question of how our writing can lend itself toward conjuring an elsewhere and otherwise is, I think, the animating force behind it all.
Jordy’s provocative choices in his latest novel Night Night Fawn bring these questions urgently to the fore as it centers and is narrated by someone whose worldview Jordy strongly opposes. Night Night Fawn is an opioid-addled, deathbed rant by one Barbara Rosenberg, a transphobic Zionist woman modeled after Jordy’s own mother. Barbara holds court not only on her life’s disappointments, but on Marxism and gender delivered through her cracked lens. All while her greatest disappointment, her transgender son, who may or may not want to kill her, visits her at her bedside. What opportunities, challenges and dangers does this approach create for a writer with revolutionary aims? How can looking back at originary violences, within a family or a nation or an ideology, be a liberatory act? And when confronting structural or familial violence, what is the role of humor and satire? Perhaps it is best summed up by Book Page in its starred review when they say Night Night Fawn is “comedic fiction as political firepower.”
For the bonus audio archive Jordy contributes a reading of Kay Gabriel & Andrea Abi-Karam’s “What is the Project of Trans Poetics Now?” This joins supplemental readings by Torrey Peters, Mattilda Bernstein Sycamore, Rickey Laurentiis, Randa Abdel-Fattah, Isabella Hammad, Naomi Klein, Dionne Brand, Christina Sharpe, Layli Long Soldier, Natalie Diaz and many others. To learn how to subscribe to the bonus audio, and about the many other potential benefits and rewards of joining the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter, head over to the show’s Patreon page.
Finally, here is the BookShop for today. Given Jordy’s generous citational practice, it is more robust than most.
Joan Naviyuk Kane : with snow pouring southward past the window
When Cynthia Cruz describes Joan Naviyuk Kane’s latest collection as a series of poems that “both shows and enacts how a self is brought to being through the abyss,” I think of Kane’s own words about poetry: as …
Show notes
When Cynthia Cruz describes Joan Naviyuk Kane’s latest collection as a series of poems that “both shows and enacts how a self is brought to being through the abyss,” I think of Kane’s own words about poetry: as “a place of refuge and possibility, a generative space. Not a space of loss, but contingence.” What is a home in the face of dispossession? Inheritance in the face of rupture and colonial erasure? And what is the role of language on behalf of continuity and continuation? We explore all of these questions and much more, both generally, but also quite granularly within the context of the indigenous circumpolar North.
For the bonus audio archive, Joan contributes the reading of a long poem, one that she is still working on, called “Provisionally.” She grants us a sneak peek of a poem that she has been drafting and revising for a year, in its current provisional form. This joins many remarkable contributions— from everyone from Layli Long Soldier to Dionne Brand, Isabella Hammad to Arthur Sze, Jorie Graham to Danez Smith. Find out how to subscribe to the bonus audio, and about the other potential benefits and rewards of joining the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter at the show’s Patreon page.
Finally, here is the BookShop for today’s conversation.
From the Archives : Brandon Shimoda : The Grave on the Wall
Today’s episode is a classic from the archives, a conversation from 2019 with Brandon Shimoda about his book The Grave on the Wall. While the book centers on an exploration of Shimoda’s grandfather’s internment …
Show notes
Today’s episode is a classic from the archives, a conversation from 2019 with Brandon Shimoda about his book The Grave on the Wall. While the book centers on an exploration of Shimoda’s grandfather’s internment at Fort Missoula during World War II, it is really an interrogation of America that extends both directions in time from that moment. Forts such as these, that imprisoned Japanese and Japanese-Americans during the war, were also previously used to fight the Indian wars that established white dominance over Native lands, and are now today being used as detention centers/concentration camps for the refugees and immigrants from our southern border. The Grave on the Wall is also an engagement with photography and (mis)representation, memory and memorialization and asks the question of what it means to memorialize something that is ongoing, that has never ended.
For the bonus audio archive Brandon Shimoda contributes a reading from Etel Adnan’s long poem “Fog,” a poem she dedicated to him. This joins contributions from everyone from Isabella Hammad to Dionne Brand, Natalie Diaz to Kaveh Akbar and more. To learn how to subscribe to the bonus audio and about all the other potential rewards and benefits of joining the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter head over to the show’s Patreon page.
Báyò Akómoláfé : Selah
What if we were to take seriously that we, as humans, aren’t the sole authors of our world, that there are other intelligences at play, that we are only one of many agents of change and transformation, and that …
Show notes
What if we were to take seriously that we, as humans, aren’t the sole authors of our world, that there are other intelligences at play, that we are only one of many agents of change and transformation, and that “we” aren’t even entirely ourselves given that “we” are composed of many “others,” many strangers that nevertheless make up what we call a “self”—what would a philosophy and politics emerging from this look like, one where we weren’t the center or central agent of the story? And what would we do if we discovered that the way we’ve been responding to the things we want to change—colonialism, racism, fascism, environmental devastation, and more—what if something about the way we oppose these forces actually reinscribes them, where the very way we are responding to the crisis becomes part of the crisis? We explore these animating philosophical questions of Báyò Akómoláfé today and take them also into the realm of words— from what it means when Báyò says “poetry precedes language” to how to tell stories while recognizing, in their remarkable power, their danger and limitations. We talk koans and tricksters, monsters and fugitives, shifting shape, following cracks, making sanctuary and much more.
If you enjoy today’s conversation consider transforming yourself from a listener to a listener-supporter by joining the Between the Covers community. Find out more about all the potential benefits and rewards of doing so at the show’s Patreon page.
Finally the BookShop for today.
Milkweed Live : Canisia Lubrin : The World After Rain
Canisia Lubrin returns to Between the Covers for a live conversation in downtown Portland, at Powell’s Bookstore, about her latest poetry collection The World After Rain. A private book, that Canisia never …
Show notes
Canisia Lubrin returns to Between the Covers for a live conversation in downtown Portland, at Powell’s Bookstore, about her latest poetry collection The World After Rain. A private book, that Canisia never intended to publish, we explore what it means to write elegy beyond personal biography, what it means that “metaphors unmake the too-made,” what it means to write against the literal, with a folk sensibility and consciousness, and much more. How does elegy relate, formally and aesthetically, to water? What is the utility of poetry, its effect in the world? How can autobiography be a way to move beyond the self? Join Canisia for a deep exploration of these animating questions in her latest work.
The first time Canisia was one the show, to discuss her book Code Noir, her contribution to the bonus audio archive was a reading of as-of-yet-unpublished works by Christina Sharpe and Dionne Brand, and a soundscape she stitched together from six years of touring, from Canada to Europe to the Caribbean. This joins an immense and ever-growing archive of supplemental material and is only one of many possible things to choose from when you join the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter. You can find out more at the show’s Patreon page.
Finally, here is the BookShop for today.
From the Archives : Jake Skeets : Eyes Bottle Dark with a Mouthful of Flowers
Today’s episode is a classic from the archives, a conversation from 2019 with current Navajo Nation Poet Laureate Jake Skeets about his debut poetry collection Eyes Bottle Dark with a Mouthful of Flowers …
Show notes
Today’s episode is a classic from the archives, a conversation from 2019 with current Navajo Nation Poet Laureate Jake Skeets about his debut poetry collection Eyes Bottle Dark with a Mouthful of Flowers. Winner of the Whiting Award in poetry and the Kate Tufts Discovery Award, there is no better time to revisit this remarkable collection, and this unforgettable conversation with Skeets, as we await his new book Horses coming this March from Milkweed Editions.
For the bonus audio archive Jake contributed a reading and analysis of a poem by the first Navajo Nation Poet Laureate, Luci Tapahonso, a poem called “Hills Brothers Coffee.” He talks about it in relation to his thoughts on Diné or Navajo poetics. This joins supplemental readings by many past guests including Tommy Pico, Layli Long Soldier, Brandon Hobson, Leanne Betasamosake Simpson, Natalie Diaz, Elissa Washuta, Morgan Talty and many others. To learn how to subscribe to the bonus audio and about the many other potential benefits and rewards of joining the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter, head over to the show’s Patreon page.
Sangamithra Iyer : Governing Bodies : A Memoir, A Confluence, A Watershed
“When I tell you a story about my body, I cannot separate it from a story about water. And a story about water is also a story about family. And a story about family is rooted in the earth…,” opens Sangamithra …
Show notes
“When I tell you a story about my body, I cannot separate it from a story about water. And a story about water is also a story about family. And a story about family is rooted in the earth…,” opens Sangamithra Iyer’s Governing Bodies. What does it mean for a memoir to assume the elusive, ever-changing shape of water, to be the story of family but where the notion of family crosses the boundaries of blood, culture, nation and even species? Governing Bodies, as the Whiting judges said in their citation, is “a subtle, meditative exploration on grief and nonviolence, an international and intergenerational voyage through shared histories and a consideration of what we owe to each other and the natural world.”
For the bonus audio archive, Sangu contributes a reading of her remarkable essay “Are You Willing?” which originally appeared in the anthology Writing for Animals: New Perspectives for Writers & Instructors to Educate & Inspire. This joins an ever-growing archive of contributions from past guests—from Richard Powers to adrienne maree brown, Forrest Gander to Arthur Sze, Natalie Diaz to Ada Limón. You can find out how to access the bonus audio and about the many other potential benefits and rewards to choose from, when you join the Between the Covers community as a listener-supporter, at the show’s Patreon page.
Finally, here is today’s BookShop.
Lily Dunn : Into Being : The Radical Craft of Memoir and Its Power to Transform
In Into Being Lily Dunn explores the ways in which writing one’s life has the potential to transform it; how writing, if done well, can produce “symbolic repair.” We look at Virginia Woolf’s notion of “moments …
Show notes
In Into Being Lily Dunn explores the ways in which writing one’s life has the potential to transform it; how writing, if done well, can produce “symbolic repair.” We look at Virginia Woolf’s notion of “moments of being” as a means and method to find the form that best fits your specific story to tell. We look at different ways memoirists have used the imagination within their own work, and the various ethical issues that arise when writing about people close to you or about other peoples’ trauma. And from beginning to end, we look at Lily’s own remarkable memoir, Sins of My Father: A Daughter, A Cult, A Wild Unravelling, as a way into these questions as well.
For the bonus audio archive Lily walks us through one of the writing exercises in the book. This joins a large and ever-growing archive, everything from craft talks by Marlon James and Jeannie Vanasco, to writing prompts from Danez Smith & Lucy Ives, to readings by everyone from Mattilda Bernstein Sycamore to Richard Powers. You can find out about how to subscribe to the bonus audio and about all the other potential benefits and rewards of joining the Between the Covers community at the show’s Patreon page.
Finally here is the BookShop for today.
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