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The End of the Nation State?

September 9, 2026 · 1 h 34 min

Show notes

Where did the nation-state come from—and what happens if the conditions that made it powerful are now disappearing?

Thomas discusses these questions and much more in this wide-ranging Conflicted Conversation with award-winning novelist and essayist Rana Dasgupta, whose new book After Nations: The Making and Unmaking of a World Order sets out to explain where our world order came from and where it could be going.

Rana explains:

  • The origins of the modern nation-state and the decline of universal sacred empires
  • Louis IX, the Crown of Thorns and the sacralisation of the French state
  • How Enlightenment political theology transformed God, sovereignty and individual rights
  • Industrialisation, mass democracy, welfare states and the political power of workers
  • Liberalism, populism and the changing relationship between elites and mass democracy
  • The origins of international law in empire, property rights and global capitalism
  • Why the postwar rules-based international order is now weakening
  • The East India Company, Silicon Valley and the rise of quasi-sovereign corporate power
  • China as an alternative model of state power and control over private capital
  • Climate change, mass migration and whether the nation-state can survive a new ‘nomad century’

Find Rana on X: x.com/byranadasgupta


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Find us on X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Learn more about your ad choices. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠megaphone.fm/adchoices⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠


Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

Produced and edited by Thomas Small .

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