Everything Belongs: Living the Teachings of Richard Rohr Forward

On today's episode, we hear from New York Times bestselling author Rob Bell on the wounds and wisdom of being an Enneagram Type Seven. But first, Richard illuminates the need for Sevens, and all of us, to face our pain in order to discover a more nuanced kind of positivity. Rob then shares how he first found Fr. Richard Rohr’s teaching, and what it was like to grow up in a home where everything had to be fine. He describes how denial, the Seven’s drug of choice, gave way to burnout and grief. 

What happens when we stop outrunning the pain and let it spit us out the other side? Tune in to hear Rob on the “death of fantasy,” finding the top of the mountain in the valley, and how Type 7 can learn to embrace that "everything belongs".

Resources:

• Find the transcript for today's episode here.
• Discover more about Rob Bell here. ⁠

Sign Up for The Enneagram Email Series :

Deepen your journey with the Enneagram. Sign up for monthly reflections, practices, and resources that connect the contemplative wisdom with your daily life:⁠ https://cac.org/belongs2026/⁠

Additional Enneagram Resources:

• ⁠The Enneagram: An Introduction:⁠ A brief introduction to this tool and a compilation of different resources curated for those longing to better understand and have compassion for themselves and others. 
• ⁠Enneagram as a Tool for Your Spiritual Journey:⁠ Use the offer code POD35 to get 35% off this foundational Enneagram teaching from Fr. Richard Rohr and Episode 2 guest Russ Hudson. 
• ⁠The Enneagram & Grace:⁠ Richard Rohr and Russ Hudson offer a deep study of the Enneagram as a practice to nurture transformation for ourselves and compassion for the world. Use POD35 to get 35% off your order. 
• ⁠Follow us on Instagram.⁠ How can your wounds lead to wisdom? Discover topics about what your number might be trying to teach you. 
• ⁠Join the conversation on Facebook⁠. Share wisdom with others on the Enneagram journey.  
• Pick up a copy of Fr. Richard's book ⁠The Enneagram: A Christian Perspective.⁠ 

Connect with Us;

Have a question you’d like ask the team to answer about this season? 

• Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 
• Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 

Today, hosts Carmen, Mike, and Cassidy sit down with the Enneagram Godmother herself, Suzanne Stabile. Join us for an episode rich in Enneagram wisdom, charm, and storytelling, as Suzanne shares her unique insights, we hear questions from CAC staff, discover how Richard' s work impacted and influenced Suzanne's own, and unpack stories that bring the types to life. We'll also discover additional layers of the Enneagram to help turn our wounds into wisdom.

Resources:

• Find the transcript for today's episode here.
• Discover more about Suzanne Stabile and all her offerings here.

Sign Up for The Enneagram Email Series :

Deepen your journey with the Enneagram. Sign up for monthly reflections, practices, and resources that connect the contemplative wisdom with your daily life:⁠ https://cac.org/belongs2026/⁠

Additional Enneagram Resources:

• ⁠The Enneagram: An Introduction:⁠ A brief introduction to this tool and a compilation of different resources curated for those longing to better understand and have compassion for themselves and others. 
• ⁠Enneagram as a Tool for Your Spiritual Journey:⁠ Use the offer code POD35 to get 35% off this foundational Enneagram teaching from Fr. Richard Rohr and Episode 2 guest Russ Hudson. 
• ⁠The Enneagram & Grace:⁠ Richard Rohr and Russ Hudson offer a deep study of the Enneagram as a practice to nurture transformation for ourselves and compassion for the world. Use POD35 to get 35% off your order. 
• ⁠Follow us on Instagram.⁠ How can your wounds lead to wisdom? Discover topics about what your number might be trying to teach you. 
• ⁠Join the conversation on Facebook⁠. Share wisdom with others on the Enneagram journey.  
• Pick up a copy of Fr. Richard's book ⁠The Enneagram: A Christian Perspective.⁠ 

Connect with Us;

Have a question you’d like ask the team to answer about this season? 

• Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 
• Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 

Today, Fr. Richard Rohr introduces us to the qualities associated with Enneagram Type Sixes, including caution, loyalty, fidelity, and courage. 

On this episode, we’re also joined by Sr. Monica Clare, a nun, ordained Episcopal priest, and sister superior at the Community of St. John Baptist. Sr. Monica shares how learning to listen to her fear led her on a winding path from improv comedy in Los Angeles to the convent, and how naming her fears honestly opened the door to authentic courage. 

Tune in to this episode to explore how caution, loyalty, and courage show up in the life of a Six — and what their wisdom offers all of us living in fearful times. 

Resources:

• Find the transcript for today's episode here.
• Discover more about Sr. Monica Clare here.

Sign Up for The Enneagram Email Series :

Deepen your journey with the Enneagram. Sign up for monthly reflections, practices, and resources that connect the contemplative wisdom with your daily life: https://cac.org/belongs2026/

Additional Enneagram Resources:

• The Enneagram: An Introduction: A brief introduction to this tool and a compilation of different resources curated for those longing to better understand and have compassion for themselves and others. 
• Enneagram as a Tool for Your Spiritual Journey: Use the offer code POD35 to get 35% off this foundational Enneagram teaching from Fr. Richard Rohr and Episode 2 guest Russ Hudson. 
• The Enneagram & Grace: Richard Rohr and Russ Hudson offer a deep study of the Enneagram as a practice to nurture transformation for ourselves and compassion for the world. Use POD35 to get 35% off your order. 
• Follow us on Instagram. How can your wounds lead to wisdom? Discover topics about what your number might be trying to teach you. 
• Join the conversation on Facebook. Share wisdom with others on the Enneagram journey.  
• Pick up a copy of Fr. Richard's book The Enneagram: A Christian Perspective. 

Connect with Us;

Have a question you’d like ask the team to answer about this season? 

• Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 
• Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠ 

In this episode, Fr. Richard Rohr introduces us to the qualities associated with Enneagram Type Fives, including self-criticism, detachment, curiosity, and the ability to live with uncertainty. 

We're also joined by Morgan Harper Nichols — a poet, musician, and artist with a devoted online following. Morgan shares how creativity can help uncover and express what is already within us, and the ways in which head types uniquely convey their emotional complexity . As a Five, she finds it beneficial to emphasize experimentation, play, and to embrace life’s unexpected turns.  

Listen now to explore how to approach self-understanding with curiosity and remain open to mystery. 

Find the transcript for today's episode here.

Sign Up for The Enneagram Email Series 

Deepen your journey with the Enneagram. Sign up for monthly reflections, practices, and resources that connect the contemplative wisdom with your daily life.  Sign up here: https://cac.org/belongs2026/

Additional Enneagram Resources

• The Enneagram: An Introduction: A brief introduction to this tool and a compilation of different resources curated for those longing to better understand and have compassion for themselves and others. 
• Enneagram as a Tool for Your Spiritual Journey: Use the offer code POD35 to get 35% off this foundational Enneagram teaching from Fr. Richard Rohr and Episode 2 guest Russ Hudson. 
• The Enneagram & Grace: Richard Rohr and Russ Hudson offer a deep study of the Enneagram as a practice to nurture transformation for ourselves and compassion for the world. Use POD35 to get 35% off your order. 
• Follow us on Instagram. How can your wounds lead to wisdom? Discover topics about what your number might be trying to teach you. 
• Join the conversation on Facebook. Share wisdom with others on the Enneagram journey.  
• Pick up a copy of Fr. Richard's book The Enneagram: A Christian Perspective. 

Connect With Us

Have a question you’d like ask the team to answer about this season? 

• Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 
• Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠ 

What can the Enneagram teach us about sensitivity, social justice, and our unique calling? 

In this conversation, our special guest, Dorcas Cheng-Tozun, speaks about the challenges faced by Enneagram Fours and highly sensitive people. Drawing from her book Social Justice for the Sensitive Soul, Dorcas reflects on belonging, burnout, and emotional wounds. She offers us sustainable ways to pursue justice.  

Also in this episode, Fr. Richard Rohr offers wisdom on the Four’s gift of seeing beyond conformity and invites Type Fours to turn their suffering outward in solidarity with others.  

Tune in to discover how our authenticity, purpose, and gifts can serve the world. 

Find the transcript for today's episode here.

Sign Up for The Enneagram Email Series 

Deepen your journey with the Enneagram. Sign up for monthly reflections, practices, and resources that connect the contemplative wisdom with your daily life. https://cac.org/belongs2026/

Additional Enneagram Resources

• The Enneagram: An Introduction: A brief introduction to this tool and a compilation of different resources curated for those longing to better understand and have compassion for themselves and others. 
• Enneagram as a Tool for Your Spiritual Journey: Use the offer code POD35 to get 35% off this foundational Enneagram teaching from Fr. Richard Rohr and Episode 2 guest Russ Hudson. 
• The Enneagram & Grace: Richard Rohr and Russ Hudson offer a deep study of the Enneagram as a practice to nurture transformation for ourselves and compassion for the world. Use POD35 to get 35% off your order. 
• Follow us on Instagram. How can your wounds lead to wisdom? Discover topics about what your number might be trying to teach you. 
• Join the conversation on Facebook. Share wisdom with others on the Enneagram journey.  
• Pick up a copy of Fr. Richard's book The Enneagram: A Christian Perspective. 

Connect With Us

Have a question you’d like ask the team to answer about this season? 

• Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 
• Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠ 

Today's bonus episode of Everything Belongs features hosts Mike Petrow, Carmen Acevedo Butcher, and Drew Jackson in conversation with Chichi Agorom, author of The Enneagram for Black Liberation: Return to Who You Are Beneath the Armor You Carry.  

Listen in to explore Chichi’s key insights: 

• Our Enneagram type can be like a suit of armor: protective but sometimes restrictive.
• She defines vulnerability as a willingness to be impacted without controlling the outcome. 
• Her three-part framework of power: power over, power within, and power with. 
• Why collective, shared power matters, especially in moments of cultural upheaval. 
• The distinction between information, knowledge, and embodied wisdom. 

Chichi closes by reflecting on how each Enneagram type carries its own “superpower” that can serve the collective when held with awareness rather than defensiveness.  

Today's episode asks us each: Can we see healing not as a solo pursuit, but as a collective effort moving us towards mutual liberation? 

Find the transcript for this episode here.

Sign Up for The Enneagram Email Series 

Deepen your journey with the Enneagram. Sign up for monthly reflections, practices, and resources that connect the contemplative wisdom with your daily life. https://cac.org/belongs2026/

Additional Enneagram Resources:

• The Enneagram: An Introduction: A brief introduction to this tool and a compilation of different resources curated for those longing to better understand and have compassion for themselves and others. 
• Enneagram as a Tool for Your Spiritual Journey: Use the offer code POD35 to get 35% off this foundational Enneagram teaching from Fr. Richard Rohr and Episode 2 guest Russ Hudson. 
• The Enneagram & Grace: Richard Rohr and Russ Hudson offer a deep study of the Enneagram as a practice to nurture transformation for ourselves and compassion for the world. Use POD35 to get 35% off your order. 
• Follow us on Instagram. How can your wounds lead to wisdom? Discover topics about what your number might be trying to teach you. 
• Join the conversation on Facebook. Share wisdom with others on the Enneagram journey.  
• Pick up a copy of Fr. Richard's book The Enneagram: A Christian Perspective. 

Connect With Us:

Have a question you’d like ask the team to answer about this season? 

• Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 
• Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠ 

Today, Fr. Richard Rohr unpacks the Enneagram Type Three, which is often referred to as “the achiever.” We live, as Fr. Richard puts it, in “a Type Three culture” — a culture obsessed with image, achievement, and approval. Threes often learn as children that love is earned through performance rather than given freely. Over time, this can lead to an over-identification with the presentable self, at the expense of deeper authenticity.

Today we're also joined by actor, director, and musician Josh Radnor, who is best known for starring on the sitcom How I Met Your Mother. Josh discusses the multi-faceted nature of professional success and the complexity of finally reaching the "top of the ladder" — only to find it leaning against the wrong wall.

Today's episode poses a moving question for us all: Can we be loved for who we are, not what we accomplish?

Find the transcript for today's episode here.

Sign Up for The Enneagram Email Series

Deepen your journey with the Enneagram. Sign up for monthly reflections, practices, and resources that connect contemplative wisdom with your daily life: https://cac.org/belongs2026/

Take a Deeper Dive into Type Three

Threes are at the center of the heart triad. They are driven by how they are perceived as well as a need to succeed — and to an outsider looking on, they often do appear very successful.

However, their success is often driven by their core wounds. “Through my competence and overproduction, can I prove my worth?” is a central question for Enneagram Threes.

Authentic and redeemed Threes can spread truth and grace in a way that is professional and efficient. Their wound can become their gift.

Additional Enneagram Resources

• The Enneagram: An Introduction: A brief introduction to this tool and a compilation of different resources curated for those longing to better understand and have compassion for themselves and others.
• Enneagram as a Tool for Your Spiritual Journey: Use the offer code POD35 to get 35% off this foundational Enneagram teaching from Fr. Richard Rohr and Episode 2 guest Russ Hudson.
• The Enneagram & Grace: Richard Rohr and Russ Hudson offer a deep study of the Enneagram as a practice to nurture transformation for ourselves and compassion for the world. Use POD35 to get 35% off your order.
• Follow us on Instagram. How can your wounds lead to wisdom? Discover topics related to what your number might be trying to teach you.
• Join the conversation on Facebook. Share wisdom with others on the Enneagram journey.
• Pick up a copy of Fr. Richard's book The Enneagram: A Christian Perspective.

Connect With Us

Have a question you’d like ask the team to answer about this season?

• Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠

Today on Everything Belongs we're joined by author and Enneagram teacher Hunter Mobley, to explore Type Two on the Enneagram — “the helper.” Type Twos excel at offering deep empathy, generosity, loyalty, and a strong desire to care for others. However, there’s also a shadow side to this type; they may struggle with boundaries, have hidden expectations for validation, or carry resentment from giving too much to others.

Fr. Richard explains that many Twos learn early in life to earn love through caretaking. Hunter expands on how cultural expectations, gender roles, and spirituality can shape or mask each of the Enneagram types, with particular emphasis on the Two.

Tune in to discover how the Enneagram is not just about personality typing, but about transformation and solidarity. Welcome to a journey that helps reveal how everything — and everyone — belongs.

Find the transcript for this episode here.

Sign Up for The Enneagram Email Series

Deepen your journey with the Enneagram. Sign up for monthly reflections, practices, and resources that connect the contemplative wisdom with your daily life: https://cac.org/belongs2026/

Take a Deeper Dive into Type Two

Twos are a part of the heart triad. They are “other-directed” people, whose well-being depends on how their environment reacts to them.

We all have this same concern, to some degree. It grows out of the mirroring we received or didn’t receive as a child when we were first developing our sense of identity. “Who am I in your eyes?” is a central question for Enneagram type twos.

Read more on Type Two here.

Additional Enneagram Resources

• The Enneagram: An Introduction: A brief introduction to this tool and a compilation of different resources curated for those longing to better understand and have compassion for themselves and others.
• Enneagram as a Tool for Your Spiritual Journey: Use the offer code POD35 to get 35% off this foundational Enneagram teaching from Fr. Richard Rohr and Episode 2 guest Russ Hudson.
• The Enneagram & Grace: Richard Rohr and Russ Hudson offer a deep study of the Enneagram as a practice to nurture transformation for ourselves and compassion for the world. Use POD35 to get 35% off your order.
• Follow us on Instagram. How can your wounds lead to wisdom? Discover topics about what your number might be trying to teach you.
• Join the conversation on Facebook. Share wisdom with others on the Enneagram journey.
• Pick up a copy of Fr. Richard's book The Enneagram: A Christian Perspective.

Connect With Us

Have a question you'd like to ask about this season?

• Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠

Do you find yourself struggling with perfectionism or a harsh inner critic?

Today's episode of Everything Belongs explores the Enneagram Type One with special guest author, teacher, and urban hermit, Tessa Bielecki. Tessa shares personal stories regarding how trauma and betrayal shattered her need to fix everything, the 1's ability to make order out of chaos, and how saguaro cacti became teachers — all opening her up to a more compassionate way of living.

Both Richard and Tessa shed light on the Enneagram One's struggle with perfectionism, and self-judgment, eventually finding healing through embracing imperfection, forgiveness, and presence. Welcome to a journey that helps reveal how everything — and everyone — belongs.

Find the transcript for this episode here.

Sign Up for The Enneagram Email Series:

Deepen your journey with the Enneagram. Sign up for monthly reflections, practices, and resources that connect the contemplative wisdom with your daily life here: https://cac.org/belongs2026/

Additional Enneagram Resources:

• Enneagram Type One: Perfection and Transformation: Learn how Enneagram ones can move beyond mixed motives and into a uniquely gifted way of being connected to God and creation.
• Get 35% Off Additional Enneagram Teachings: Use the offer code POD35 to get a 35% discount on The Enneagram for Your Spiritual Journey and The Enneagram & Grace from Fr. Richard Rohr and Russ Hudson.
• Follow us on Instagram. Did you know that the nine Enneagram types are clustered in three triads? ⁠Talk with others about using the Enneagram as a framework for transformation.
• Join the conversation on Facebook. Share your insights with others on the Enneagram journey.
• Pick up a copy of Fr. Richard's book The Enneagram: A Christian Perspective.

Connect With Us

Have a question you’d like ask the team to answer about this season?

• Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠

Today the team is honored to speak with author and Enneagram teacher Russ Hudson. Russ reminds us that you are not your type — you have a type, which is connected to your habitual coping strategy. But first, Paul and Mike dive deeper into Richard's particular way of teaching the Enneagram. Join us for an exploration of Enneagram essentials in which both Richard and Russ help us move away from ego-driven patterns towards greater presence and purpose.

Tune in to discover how the Enneagram is not just about personality typing, but about transformation and solidarity. Welcome to a journey that helps reveal how everything — and everyone — belongs.

Sign Up for The Enneagram Email Series:

Deepen your journey with the Enneagram. Sign up for monthly reflections, practices, and resources that connect contemplative wisdom with your daily life: here

Additional Enneagram Resources:

• Find the transcript for this episode here.
• The Enneagram: An Introduction: A brief introduction to this tool and a compilation of different resources curated for those longing to better understand, and have compassion for, themselves and others.
• Enneagram as a Tool for Your Spiritual Journey: Use the offer code POD35 to get 35% off this foundational Enneagram teaching from Fr. Richard Rohr and Episode 2 guest Russ Hudson.
• The Enneagram & Grace: Richard Rohr and Russ Hudson offer a deep study of the Enneagram as a practice to nurture transformation for ourselves and compassion for the world. Use POD35 to get 35% off your order.
• Follow us on Instagram. How can your wounds lead to wisdom? Discover topics about what your number might be trying to teach you.
• Join the conversation on Facebook. Share wisdom with others on the Enneagram journey.
• Pick up a copy of Fr. Richard's book The Enneagram: A Christian Perspective.

Connect With Us!

Have a question you’d like ask the team to answer about this season?

• Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠

In this season-opening episode of Everything Belongs, the CAC team returns to one of Richard Rohr’s most foundational teachings: The Enneagram—an ancient tool revealing how our wounds lead to our wisdom and our work in the world.

Richard shares the surprising story of how The Enneagram “found” him and how it transformed his work and spiritual teaching. The hosting team —CAC Dean of Faculty Carmen Acevedo Butcher, Drew Jackson, Paul Swanson, Cassidy Hall, and Mike Petrow — reflect on their own “origin stories,” sharing how this tool has shaped their healing, relationships, and solidarity with others.

Whether you’re brand new to the Enneagram or a longtime seeker, this warm, insightful conversation invites you into a season of curiosity, compassion, and contemplative growth. Welcome to a journey that helps reveal how everything — and everyone — belongs.

Additional Enneagram Resources :

Sign Up for The Enneagram Email Series

Begin (or deepen) your journey with the Enneagram. Sign up for monthly reflections, practices, and resources that connect the contemplative wisdom with your daily life.

Sign up at cac.org/belongs2026

• The Enneagram: An Introduction: A brief introduction to this tool and a compilation of different resources curated for those longing to better understand, and have compassion for, themselves and others.

• Enneagram as a Tool for Your Spiritual Journey: Use the offer code POD35 to get 35% off this foundational Enneagram teaching from Father Richard Rohr.

• Follow us on Instagram. How can your wounds lead to wisdom? Discover topics about what your number might be trying to teach you.

• Join the conversation on Facebook. Share wisdom with others on the Enneagram journey.

• The transcript for today's episode can be found ⁠⁠here.⁠

• Pick up a copy of Richard's book The Enneagram: A Christian Perspective ⁠here.

  Note: Jim and Kirsten's book on the Enneagram will be available in 2027

Connect with us:

Have a question you'd like ask the team to answer about this season?

• Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠

Today, Richard and our hosts wrap up the season by answering your questions on The Tears of Things: Prophetic Wisdom For An Age of Outrage. Stay tuned until the end of the episode for a preview of what's to come on the next exciting season of Everything Belongs.

Resources:

• Find the transcript for this episode here.

Where does the prophetic journey through our anger and tears finally culminate?

In this episode of Everything Belongs, we turn to Chapter 10 of Richard Rohr's The Tears of Things, called “It All Comes Down To Love.” Discover how the prophetic journey through order, disorder, and reorder ultimately leads us to Universal Love.

At Richard's hermitage, our hosts discuss how great love is the only sane response to great suffering, and explore why loving one thing deeply can teach us to love everything. Afterwards all four of our hosts share the ways in which they've been impacted by our year long journey through The Tears of Things.

Resources:

• Grab a copy of The Tears of Things ⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠.
• Find a transcript for this episode here.
• To learn more about The Tears of Things and additional offerings, including the trailer, a FREE Reader’s Guide, and more, visit ⁠⁠⁠thetearsofthings.com.

In this episode of Everything Belongs, we explore Chapter 9 of Fr. Richard Rohr’s New York Times Bestselling book The Tears of Things ⁠⁠⁠⁠— rediscovering the prophet Ezekiel through Indigenous eyes.

In the second half of this episode, you’ll hear from Rev. Dr. Randy Woodley. He reflects on how Western Christianity’s fixation on hierarchy and domination distorts the gospel — and how Indigenous wisdom invites us back into harmony with creation.

Randy Woodley is an award-winning author and a tribally recognized Keetoowah descendant (UKB), Randy weaves together Indigenous wisdom, ecological sustainability, and spirituality. Randy is both a farmer and a Distinguished Professor Emeritus. He is respected by Indigenous and non-Indigenous communities worldwide and has been featured in The New York Times, Politifact, Time Magazine, and The Huffington Post. Randy publishes a weekly Substack at https://rwoodley7.substack.com/

Together, the Woodley’s co-sustain Eloheh Indigenous Center for Earth Justice and Eloheh Farm & Seeds, https://www.eloheh.org/ a non-profit, regenerative farm and school determined to assist others grow healthy food and combat the climate crisis. They are founders of Sho-Kee Cultural Consultants www.Sho-Kee.com

Resources:

• Learn more about Randy here
• Grab a copy of The Tears of Things ⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠.
• To learn more about The Tears of Things and additional offerings, including the trailer, a FREE Reader’s Guide, and more, visit ⁠⁠⁠thetearsofthings.com.
• Find the transcript of this episode here.

Connect with us:

• Have a question you'd like us to answer about this season?
• Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

We'll be accepting questions for our Listener Questions episode until December 31st, 2025.

In this episode of Everything Belongs, we explore Chapter 8 of Richard Rohr’s The Tears of Things. Our hosts consider how the book of Isaiah embodies Fr. Richard’s wisdom pattern of order, disorder, and reorder — and how prophecy moves us from anger to lamentation to expansive love.

Later, you’ll hear from author Cassidy Hall for a conversation about women’s often-erased voices, queerness as a contemplative lens, and prophets on the margins.

Resources:

• Learn more about Cassidy Hall here.
• Grab a copy of The Tears of Things ⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠.
• To learn more about The Tears of Things and additional offerings, including the trailer, a FREE Reader's Guide, and more, visit ⁠⁠⁠thetearsofthings.com

What does it mean to cry with God—and be healed by our tears?

In this episode of Everything Belongs, we explore Chapter 7 of Richard Rohr’s The Tears of Things, called The Alchemy of Tears: How We Learn Universal Sympathy and Grace, which focuses on the "gift of tears" as a sacred pathway to healing and transformation. At Richard’s hermitage, co-hosts Mike Petrow and Paul Swanson discuss how grief, when honored, connects us to divine sadness and invites us into deeper compassion. Later, Mike and Carmen Acevedo Butcher are joined by Jungian psychotherapist, Rabbi Tirzah Firestone, to explore how we metabolize trauma and grief, heal intergenerational wounds, and move from pathologizing pain to putting it in service of love and justice.

Resources:

• Find out more about Rabbi Tirzah Firestone here.
• Learn more about Tirzah's book, Wounds Into Wisdom here.
• Grab a copy of The Tears of Things ⁠⁠here⁠⁠.
• To learn more about The Tears of Things and additional offerings, including the trailer, a FREE Reader's Guide, and more, visit ⁠⁠thetearsofthings.com

How do we learn from imperfect spiritual teachers and embrace our own incompleteness?

In this episode, we're exploring Chapter 6 of Richard Rohr's final book, The Tears of Things, titled "Unfinished Prophets: Elijah, Jonah, and John the Baptizer." In an extended conversation at Richard's hermitage, hosts Mike Petrow and Paul Swanson dive deep into three biblical figures who never quite completed their prophetic journey from anger to sadness to love.

Later, Carmen Acevedo Butcher joins to discuss what it means to love our own imperfection and learn from flawed teachers without idealizing them. Mike and Carmen explore how perfectionism serves oppressive systems, why self-compassion is essential for spiritual growth, and address the significant absence of women's voices in prophetic literature.

How do we live with hope when the path forward demands surrender?

In this episode, we explore Chapter 5 of Richard Rohr’s book, The Tears of Things: Prophetic Wisdom for an Age of Outrage, titled “Jeremiah: The Patterns That Carry Us Across.” Through conversation with Richard, we reflect on the prophetic vocation as a lifelong invitation to move from anger and lament into love—and how Jeremiah models that transformation.

After our dialogue with Richard, we’re joined by the beloved Reverend Dr. Walter Earl Fluker, Howard Thurman scholar and prophetic voice of ethical leadership. Together, we delve into what it means to be “dismembered to be remembered,” as Dr. Fluker shares his lifelong journey to find home, the role of the trickster God in transformation, and why there can be no liberation without struggle.

This episode walks the listener through the wisdom pattern of order, disorder, and reorder as it shows up in Jeremiah’s life—and our own. From ancient covenant to inner apocalypse, from personal grief to collective trauma, this episode is a deep meditation on how tears and laughter both reveal the path to freedom.

This episode invites you to consider: What if the tears you cry in sorrow are the same tears that prepare you for joy? What if the very act of being broken is the beginning of becoming whole?

Resources:

• Listen to Dr. Fluker's episode of The Cosmic We here.
• Grab a copy of The Tears of Things ⁠here⁠.
• To learn more about The Tears of Things and additional offerings, including the trailer, a FREE Reader's Guide, and more, visit ⁠thetearsofthings.com

What wisdom emerges when contemplative action meets radical compassion?

In this special bonus episode, we step outside the chapter-by-chapter rhythm of Richard Rohr’s final book, The Tears of Things: Prophetic Wisdom for an Age of Outrage, for a rare and intimate conversation between Fr. Richard Rohr and his longtime friend Fr. Greg Boyle. Together, they explore the soul of the book and the spirit of this moment in history.

Fr. Greg, founder of Homeboy Industries and author of Cherished Belonging: The Healing Power of Love in Divided Times, joins Richard and CAC staff member Paul Swanson for a profound dialogue on everything from the death of Pope Francis and the surprising emergence of Pope Leo, to the themes of humiliation, humility, and radical belonging.

Together, they reflect on the journey from order to disorder to reorder, offering insight into how love acts in the world, especially among the most marginalized. Fr. Richard and Fr. Greg Boyle embody the very message they share: that transformation is always possible, and that love, when lived, is the greatest force for healing in our divided world.

The transcript for this episode can be found here

How do we navigate spiritual transformation when everything seems to be falling apart?

In this episode, we're exploring Chapter 4 of Richard Rohr’s final book, The Tears of Things: Prophetic Wisdom for an Age of Outrage, titled "Welcoming Holy Disorder: How the Prophets Carry Us Through." After our conversation with Richard, we're joined by Jungian psychologist and author Connie Zweig, who deepens our exploration into the role of the shadow, the hidden parts of ourselves and our communities that disorder brings to light.

Connie, along with hosts and CAC staff Mike Petrow, Paul Swanson, and Carmen Acevedo Butcher, unpack the cyclical pattern of order, disorder, and reorder that Richard calls the Wisdom Pattern. Together, they explore how disorder is not only inevitable but sacred, a season of necessary unraveling that allows space for grace, healing, and transformation.

This episode shows how the prophets help us see what we cannot, why true spiritual growth demands discomfort, and how embracing the dark night of the soul can lead to profound renewal—both personally and collectively.

Connie Zweig, Ph.D. is a retired Jungian therapist and author of Meeting the Shadow and Romancing the Shadow. Her award-winning book, The Inner Work of Age: Shifting from Role to Soul, extends Shadow-work into midlife and beyond and explores aging as a spiritual practice. Her book, Meeting the Shadow on the Spiritual Path: The Dance of Darkness and Light in Our Search for Awakening, extends shadow-work into religion and spirituality. Her new podcast, Dr. Neil’s Spiritual Awakening to Non-Duality, posts on all podcast platforms. See her new SUBSTACK for livestreams and new writing: https://www.shadowworkawareness.com/about.

Resources:

• The transcript for this episode can be found here.

How does God enact change when the mainstream seems lost?

In this episode, we explore Chapter 3 of Richard Rohr's The Tears of Things: Prophetic Wisdom for an Age of Outrage, "A Critical Mass: The Secret of the Remnant." After our conversation with Richard about God's work from the edges, we're joined by Rev. Dr. Jacqui Lewis, pastor, author, and host of our sister podcast Love Period. Rev. Jaqui helps us explore what it means to embody the remnant today through fierce love, fierce freedom, and the call to un-empire Christianity. Additionally, this conversation helps us to recognize God's work in unexpected places, the prophetic call to anti-scapegoating, finding the "7,000" others, and how the small-but-mighty actions of the remnant can become a catalyst for transformation.

Resources:

• The transcript for this episode can be found here.

How do we confront systemic injustice without falling into despair or self-righteousness?

That's what we're exploring in this episode as we dive into Chapter 2 of Richard Rohr's new book, The Tears of Things, titled "Amos: Messenger to the Collective." Mike and Paul begin by talking with Richard about Amos's unique approach: critiquing the collective culture rather than scapegoating individuals, and turning anger over injustice into fuel for change. Following the conversation with Richard, co-hosts Mike and Carmen are joined by Rabbi Or Rose, founding director of the Miller Center of Hebrew College and author. Together in conversation, they explore Abraham Joshua Heschel's understanding of the prophet, the challenge of holding righteous indignation without self-righteousness, the power of teshuvah (return), and practical ways to remain spiritually grounded and committed to justice and peace work in overwhelming times.

Rabbi Or Rose is the founding Director of The Miller Center of Hebrew College, and serves as a senior consultant to Interfaith America. Among his recent publications is the award-winning, co-edited volume With the Best of Intentions: Interreligious Missteps & Mistakes (Orbis Books). His forthcoming book, My Legs Were Praying: A Biography of Abraham Joshua Heschel for teen readers will be published in May 2025 (Monkfish Book Publishing).

Resources:

• Grab a copy of The Tears of Things here, where you can get a free reader's guide, discover a new course, and other offerings related to the book.
• Read more from Rabbi Or Rose here
• The transcript for this episode can be found here.

How can we find wisdom amidst outrage and connect with the divine in the face of suffering?

In this episode, we're exploring the self-titled first chapter of Richard's latest book, The Tears of Things: Prophetic Wisdom for an Age of Outrage, entitled "The Tears of Things." After our conversation with Richard, we're joined by Pete Enns, author, Old Testament scholar, and host of "The Bible for Normal People," who helps us explore the importance of uncertainty, the evolution of faith, and reading scripture as a journey. Pete, along with hosts and CAC Staff Mike Petrow, Paul Swanson, and Drew Jackson, discuss navigating the rhythm of order, disorder, and reorder in both life and scripture, the value of tears in the prophetic journey, and how the wisdom of the prophets can be applied to contemporary issues of injustice and outrage.

Peter Enns (PhD, Harvard University) is the Abram S. Clemens Professor of Biblical Studies at Eastern University, St. David’s, Pennsylvania. He has also taught courses at Harvard University, Fuller Theological Seminary, and Princeton Theological Seminary. He is the host of The Bible for Normal People podcast, a frequent contributor to journals and encyclopedias, and the author of several books, including The Sin of Certainty, The Bible Tells Me So, and Inspiration and Incarnation. He lives in northern New Jersey.

Resources:

• Grab a copy of The Tears of Things here, where you can get a free reader's guide, discover a new course, and other offerings related to the book.

• The transcript for this episode can be found here.

• Check out the work of Pete Enns and The Bible for Normal People here.

Welcome to a brand-new, year-long, season that we are devoting to Fr. Richard Rohr's new book, The Tears of Things. Each month, we'll be moving through a new chapter of the book with Fr. Richard himself, as well as CAC Faculty and Staff, and a range of guests who are living the teachings forward from the context of their lives.

In this episode, we're setting up the season by diving right into the Introduction, "Good Trouble." We're excited to introduce Carmen Acevedo Butcher as an additional co-host to this season of the podcast.

This epiosde features all four co-hosts: Carmen Acevedo Butcher, Drew Jackson, Mike Petrow, and Paul Swanson.

Resources:

• Grab a copy of The Tears of Things here.
• To learn more about The Tears of Things and additional offerings, including the trailer, a FREE Reader's Guide, and more, visit thetearsofthings.com
• A transcript for this episode can be found here.

How do we put the genius of St. Francis to work in our own lives?

In this final episode of our Third Season, Richard takes us through Chapter 13 of Eager to Love, "Francis: A Natural Spiritual Genius". Mike, Drew, and Paul then engage in a rich conversation with author Jon Sweeney, who shares his journey of writing about St. Francis and how it has shaped his understanding of compassion and sensitivity in daily life. The discussion emphasizes the importance of navigating the complexities of living out spiritual values in a world filled with challenges. Sweeney highlights the radical love inherent in Franciscan spirituality and the significance of daily practice in living out these principles. The conversation also touches on Francis' critique of social structures and his solidarity with the suffering of the world, culminating in the emotional depth of his teachings that intertwine love and wound.

Jon M. Sweeney is an award-winning author and independent scholar. His books on Franciscan spirituality have sold a quarter million copies. He’s also the author of forty books on spirituality, mysticism, biography, and memoir including Meister Eckhart’s Book of the Heart, coauthored with Mark S. Burrows and, Thomas Merton: An Introduction to His Life and Practices. Jon is religion editor at Monkfish Book Publishing, editor of Living City magazine, and the book reviewer at SpiritualityandPractice.com.

Hosted by CAC Staff: Paul Swanson, Drew Jackson, and Mike Petrow

Resources:

• Grab a copy of Eager to Love here.
• The transcript for this episode can be found here.
• Pick up a copy of Jon's book, The Complete Francis of Assisi: His Life, The Complete Writings, and The Little Flowers, here.
• Find Jon's book, St. Francis of Assisi: His Life, Teachings, and Practice, here

What is the note you are being called to add to the great universal orchestra?

Today Richard helps us unpack Chapter 12 of Eager to Love, "John Duns Scotus: Anything but a Dunce". Mike and Paul are then joined by Sr Mary Beth Ingham, who shares her journey of understanding Scotus. Ingham addresses the title of her book Scotus for Dunces: An Introduction to the Subtle Doctor, explaining its playful yet meaningful approach to making Scotus's complex ideas accessible. The three discuss the importance of individuality within the context of community, the Univocity of being as a bridge between human experience and divine understanding, and the significance of recognizing the dignity of each person's experience. The conversation culminates in a reflection on the mysticism of Scotus and why his teachings matter for us today.

Sr. Mary Beth Ingham, CSJ currently serves as Congregational Leader of the Sisters of St. Joseph of Orange, California. Mary Beth is Professor Emerita, LMU Philosophy Dept and formerly Professor of Philosophical Theology at the Franciscan School of Theology. She holds a doctorate in Medieval Philosophy from the University of Fribourg, Switzerland and has published widely on the thought of Franciscan Master Blessed John Duns Scotus. Her monographs include Scotus for Dunces: An Introduction to the Subtle Doctor (2003), Rejoicing in the Works of the Lord: Beauty in the Franciscan Tradition (2009), The Harmony of Goodness: Mutuality and Moral Living in John Duns Scotus (2012), and Understanding John Duns Scotus: Of Realty the Rarest-Veined Unraveller (2017). In her research, she argues that the spirituality of beauty, the via pulchritudinis, is at the heart of the Franciscan intellectual tradition.

Hosted by CAC Staff: Paul Swanson, and Drew Jackson

Resources:

• Grab a copy of Eager to Love here.
• The transcript for this episode can be found here.
• Learn more about Sr Mary Beth Ingham's books, here.

How can we meet the Divine with both our minds and our hearts?

Today Richard guides us through the Eleventh Chapter of his book, Eager to Love, entitled, "Bonaventure: To Return to Love is to Yield to the Source". We're then once again joined by the inimitable Sr. Margaret Carney, who delves into the life and teachings of Bonaventure, exploring his significance in the Franciscan tradition, his mysticism, and the three great truths that underpin his theological vision. Sr. Carney, along with hosts Paul Swanson and Drew Jackson, discuss the importance of love in academia, the journey back to God, and how Bonaventure's teachings can be applied to contemporary challenges.

Margaret Carney, OSF, STD is a member of the Sisters of St. Francis of the Neumann Communities. She holds degrees in education and theology from Duquesne University, a degree in Franciscan Studies from St. Bonaventure University and a doctorate from the Pontifical University Antonianum in Rome.

Primary themes of her teaching focus on early Franciscan women, the history of the Third Order Regular and the challenges of Franciscan collaboration in the current era. She resides in Pittsburgh and continues to serve through various committees and boards of higher education and Franciscan service. Among her many honors she includes the Monika K. Hellwig Award of the Association of Catholic Colleges and Universities and the Pro Pontifice et Ecclesiae Award given by Pope Francis in 2016.

Hosted by CAC Staff: Paul Swanson, and Drew Jackson

Resources:

• Grab a copy of Eager to Love here.
• The transcript for this episode can be found here.
• Pick up Sr. Margaret Carney's book, Light of Assisi: The Story of Saint Clare, here.

How can we build solidarity and connection with people of different faiths and cultures?

Today on Everything Belongs, Father Richard Rohr guides us through Chapter 10 of his book, Eager to Love, "Entering the World of Another: Francis and the Sultan of Egypt." Hosts Mike Petrow and Drew Jackson then engage in a profound conversation with Brother Omid Safi about the essence of love in Islam, and the role of poetry and language in navigating spiritual and interfaith dialogues. Brother Omid and our hosts delve into the intersections of spirituality, and how learning from different traditions can enrich our own spiritual journey. The three explore the significance of the encounter between Saint Francis and the Sultan as a model for compassion and dialogue, as well as the the need for a unified approach to spirituality that transcends divisions.

Brother Omid Safi is a teacher in the Sufi tradition of Radical Love and Founder of Illuminated Courses & Tours. He is currently a professor at Duke University specializing in Islamic spirituality and contemporary thought. A leading Muslim public intellectual, Omid is committed to the intersection of spirituality and social justice. His most recent book is Radical Love: Teachings from the Islamic Mystical Tradition.

Hosted by CAC Staff: Mike Petrow, Paul Swanson, and Drew Jackson

Resources:

• A transcript for this episode can be found here.
• Grab a copy of Eager to Love here.
• Learn more about the work of Brother Omid Safi here.
• Listen to Brother Omid's podcast, Sufi Heart, here.

What or whom do you want to reflect out into the world?

Today we're exploring the 9th Chapter from Richard's book Eager to Love, entitled, "The Legacy of Clare: Living the Life at Depth." In this conversation, CAC hosts are joined by the dynamic Sister Margaret Carney, who shares her deep connection to Franciscan spirituality and journey into religious life, highlighting the joy and challenges of living out these ideals. She discusses the significance of Clare of Assisi's commitment to place and community, the metaphor of the mirror in Clare's teachings, and the unique contributions Clare made beyond the shadow of Francis. The conversation also touches on the themes of downward mobility, the role of conversion in Franciscan spirituality, and how we can live out Clare's example in today's world.

Margaret Carney, OSF, STD is a member of the Sisters of St. Francis of the Neumann Communities. She holds degrees in education and theology from Duquesne University, a degree in Franciscan Studies from St. Bonaventure University and a doctorate from the Pontifical University Antonianum in Rome.

Primary themes of her teaching focus on early Franciscan women, the history of the Third Order Regular and the challenges of Franciscan collaboration in the current era. She resides in Pittsburgh and continues to serve through various committees and boards of higher education and Franciscan service. Among her many honors she includes the Monika K. Hellwig Award of the Association of Catholic Colleges and Universities and the Pro Pontifice et Ecclesiae Award given by Pope Francis in 2016.

Hosted by CAC Staff: Mike Petrow, Paul Swanson, and Drew Jackson

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode can be found here.
• Grab a copy of Eager to Love here.
• Pick up Sr. Margaret Carney's book, Light of Assisi: The Story of Saint Clare, here.

Have you adopted scripts around the terms feminine and masculine?

Today we unpack Chapter 8 of Richard's book, Eager to Love, entitled "Lightness of Heart and Firmness of Foot: The integration of Feminine and Masculine", and we ask for our listener's grace as we imperfectly grapple with a subject inherently challenging to define. The conversation delves into the integration of masculine and feminine energies within the context of spirituality, particularly through the lens of the Franciscan tradition. Richard and our hosts explore how cultural influences shape our definitions, how terms like masculine and feminine can easily be confused for gender, and the revolutionary approach of Francis of Assisi in breaking free from traditional norms. We're then joined by two incredible voices in the world of liberation psychology and contemplative spirituality, Jennifer Abe and Douglas Christie, who share their personal journeys and insights, emphasizing the interconnectedness of life and the need for openness to mystery and transformation.

Jennifer Shimako Abe earned her PhD in clinical psychology from UCLA and has been on the faculty of the Department of Psychological Science at Loyola Marymount University since 1994. Her experience in Central and South America drew her to the work of Jesuit priest and social psychologist, Fr. Ignacio Martin-Baró, SJ and the field he founded, liberation psychology. The principles of liberation psychology have guided her research in different areas, including how the practice of cultural humility relates to institutional and social transformation, and how culturally rooted, community-defined evidence practices are critical for addressing mental health disparities across diverse communities. In 2024, she helped lead a commission on Student Spiritual Growth and Mental Health: Toward a Hope-Filled Future for Jesuit institutions in North America. Jennifer is currently the interim director for the Marymount Institute for Faith, Culture, and the Arts at LMU, leading efforts to strengthen the legacy of the women religious and the Marymount educational tradition at her institution. Across different leadership roles, Jennifer has been committed to working at the intersections of culture, spirituality, and justice in the context of Ignatian values and the Jesuit educational mission.

Douglas E. Christie is Professor Emeritus in the Theological Studies Department at Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles. He is the author of The Word in The Desert: Scripture and the Quest for Holiness in Early Christian Monasticism (Oxford, 1993), The Blue Sapphire of the Mind: Note for a Contemplative Ecology (Oxford, 2012), and The Insurmountable Darkness of Love: Mysticism, Loss and the Common Life (Oxford, 2022). He has been awarded fellowships from the Luce Foundation, the Lilly Foundation and the National Endowment for the Humanities. From 2013-2015 he served as Co-director of the Casa de la Mateada study abroad program in Córdoba, Argentina, a program rooted in the Jesuit vision of education for solidarity. He lives with his family in Los Angeles and is currently working on a book about the desert as spiritual landscape.

Hosted by CAC Staff: Mike Petrow, and Paul Swanson

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode can be found here.
• Grab a copy of Eager to Love here.
• To learn more about the work of Jennifer Abe, visit here.
• For more by Douglas Christie, visit the following: Wasting Time Conscientiously, What is Contemplation