Okay, But… Birds
- Episodes
- 49
- Released
- weekly
- Location
- Denver, CO
- Latest episode
- Nov 12, 2026
About the podcast
Hosted by evolutionary biologist Dr. Scott Taylor, Okay, But... Birds explores the drama, brilliance, and science behind bird life. Each snackable 30-minute episode blends smart storytelling, expert interviews, and a touch of humor to reveal how birds shape our world. No jargon. No binoculars required. Just real science, quirky insights, and bird-brained drama you’ll want to share at brunch. Because birds aren’t background. Birds are cool.
Contributors
Episodes 49
Okay, but is birdsong really a boys club?
With Dr. Karan Odom
E48. Picture a bird singing. Odds are you pictured a male, because that is what the field guides taught us. Dr. Karan Odom of the University of the Pacific studies female birdsong, and she explains why assuming …
Show notes
E48. Picture a bird singing. Odds are you pictured a male, because that is what the field guides taught us. Dr. Karan Odom of the University of the Pacific studies female birdsong, and she explains why assuming that the bird singing is male says more about scientists than about the birds.
Support the science: there are still species where nobody has checked whether the female sings. The Female Birdsong Project turns 10 in 2027 and is raising money to fill those gaps. Donate at femalebirdsong.org.
In this episode, you'll hear about:
- Who was singing when the very first songbirds evolved
- The backyard birds where she sings too, and how to tell when it is her
- Tropical wren pairs that sing in such a coordinated way that they sound like one bird
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Northern Cardinal audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML100764
- Bullock's Oriole audio contributed by William R. Fish, ML22790
- Northern Mockingbird audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML197002
- Black-capped Chickadee audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML197114
- Tufted Titmouse audio contributed by Randolph Little, ML191246
- White-breasted Nuthatch audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML306062
- Gray Catbird audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML94317
- Northern House Wren audio contributed by Randolph Little, ML144011
- Bay Wren audio contributed by David L. Ross, Jr., ML57484
Okay, but how bad are cats for birds?
With Dr. Peter Marra
E47. Cats kill billions of birds every year, but where does that number come from, and does the cat on your couch count? Dr. Pete Marra, dean of the Earth Commons at Georgetown University and co-author of Cat …
Show notes
E47. Cats kill billions of birds every year, but where does that number come from, and does the cat on your couch count? Dr. Pete Marra, dean of the Earth Commons at Georgetown University and co-author of Cat Wars, unpacks the science behind one of the most heated fights in bird conservation. Want to go deeper? Pick up Pete’s book, Cat Wars: The Devastating Consequences of a Cuddly Killer, co-written with Chris Santella.
In this episode, you'll hear about:
- How one lighthouse keeper's cat and her offspring caused the extinction of a bird almost as soon as it was discovered
- Whether that little bell on a cat's collar actually does anything
- Why New Zealand and Australia are making some of the toughest calls in conservation
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Galapagos Petrel audio contributed by Robert J. Tomkins, ML20313
- Floreana Mockingbird audio contributed by Robert I. Bowman, ML85455
Okay, but why are we obsessed with crows and ravens?
With Dr. Claudia Wascher
E46. Crows and ravens fill our oldest stories, and plenty of us want one as a friend. Dr. Claudia Wascher, professor of behavioral biology at Anglia Ruskin University, explains what makes corvids seem so …
Show notes
E46. Crows and ravens fill our oldest stories, and plenty of us want one as a friend. Dr. Claudia Wascher, professor of behavioral biology at Anglia Ruskin University, explains what makes corvids seem so clever, when clever turns out to be something simpler, and why befriending them is a bad idea.
In this episode, you'll hear about:
- The crow named Hugo, and what his flock started saying once he was gone
- Why a walnut dropped at a red light may be less clever than it looks
- What a goose's heartbeat reveals about how birds feel
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- American Crow audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML229089
- Common Raven audio contributed by Gerrit Vyn, ML132161
- Steller's Jay audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML539738
- Hawaiian Crow video contributed by Timothy Barksdale, ML425081
- Rook audio contributed by James (Jim) Holmes, ML635593051
- Eurasian Jay audio contributed by James (Jim) Holmes, ML32278971
- Carrion Crow audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML231022
- Australian Magpie audio contributed by Emma Greig, ML218159
- House Crow video contributed by Raphaël Nussbaumer, ML241917321
- Red-tailed Hawk audio contributed by David McCartt, ML229578
- Graylag Goose audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML233387
Okay, but is the lyrebird a liar?
With Dr. Anastasia Dalziell
E45. Lyrebirds can copy a chainsaw, a car alarm and a camera shutter, so it is easy to call them liars. Dr. Anastasia Dalziell of Western Sydney University has spent years recording them in the wild, and she …
Show notes
E45. Lyrebirds can copy a chainsaw, a car alarm and a camera shutter, so it is easy to call them liars. Dr. Anastasia Dalziell of Western Sydney University has spent years recording them in the wild, and she explains what the famous Attenborough clip left out and some of the most surprising evolutionary reasons for mimicry.
In this episode, you'll hear about:
- Why a female lyrebird starts sounding like an eagle when you get too close to her nest
- What a male does when the female he has been courting tries to walk away
- The other lyrebird, and the hooked rainforest vine it plays like an instrument
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Red-tailed Hawk audio contributed by David McCartt, ML229578
- Killdeer audio contributed by Mike Andersen, ML129054
- Superb Lyrebird audio contributed by Vicki Powys, ML229691
- Albert's Lyrebird audio contributed by Robert C. Stein, ML309505
- Gray Shrikethrush video contributed by Ramit Singal, ML641225345
- Gray Shrikethrush audio contributed by Vicki Powys, ML229649
- Golden Whistler video contributed by Ramit Singal, ML641948342
- Golden Whistler audio contributed by Ramit Singal, ML272346391
- Wedge-tailed Eagle audio contributed by Vicki Powys, ML223274
- Gray Goshawk audio contributed by Ramit Singal, ML246142551
- Albert's Lyrebird video contributed by Fiona Backhouse, ML615390207
- Albert's Lyrebird audio contributed by Ramit Singal, ML141465291
- Albert's Lyrebird video contributed by Fiona Backhouse, ML615390194
- Albert's Lyrebird video contributed by Fiona Backhouse, ML615390209
- Satin Bowerbird audio contributed by Newton Hobbs, ML16236
- Albert's Lyrebird video contributed by Fiona Backhouse, ML615390211
- Superb Lyrebird audio contributed by James (Jim) Holmes, ML463586881
Superb Lyrebird recordings (2024 films): Justin Welbergen, Jaden Thompson, Elle Heiser, Yoon Lee, Fiona Backhouse and Anastasia Dalziell, Hawkesbury Institute for the Environment, Western Sydney University, Australia, and Cornell Lab of Ornithology, Cornell University, USA.
Okay, but what's threatening the apex predators of the sky?
With Dr. Todd Katzner
E44. An adult eagle has no natural predators, so why are birds of prey declining? Dr. Todd Katzner, a wildlife biologist with the U.S. Geological Survey, explains the surprising dangers facing golden eagles and …
Show notes
E44. An adult eagle has no natural predators, so why are birds of prey declining? Dr. Todd Katzner, a wildlife biologist with the U.S. Geological Survey, explains the surprising dangers facing golden eagles and their kin, from spinning wind turbines to a threat small enough to fit on a grain of rice.
In this episode, you'll hear about:
- Why an eagle that can clearly see a wind turbine still flies into one
- How a hunter's choice of bullet ends up inside an eagle
- The flap count that tells a vulture whether to risk crossing the sea
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Bald Eagle audio contributed by Darrell Peterson, ML145265541
- Golden Eagle audio contributed by W. Douglas Robinson, ML612942188
- Golden Eagle audio contributed by Kathy Groschupf, ML57165
- American Goshawk video contributed by Dan J. MacNeal, ML297994251
- Harpy Eagle audio contributed by Curtis Marantz, ML81101
- Ruby-throated Hummingbird audio contributed by Trenton Voytko, ML604314061
- Ferruginous Hawk audio contributed by Gerrit Vyn, ML172487
Okay, but how terrifying were terror birds?
With Dr. Federico "Dino" Degrange
E43. For millions of years, South America’s top predators weren’t cats or bears. They were birds, some taller than a person. Paleontologist Dr. Federico "Dino" Degrange of the Universidad Nacional de Córdoba …
Show notes
E43. For millions of years, South America’s top predators weren’t cats or bears. They were birds, some taller than a person. Paleontologist Dr. Federico "Dino" Degrange of the Universidad Nacional de Córdoba joins us to ask whether terror birds really earned their name.
In this episode, you'll hear about:
- The surprising weapon a terror bird actually used to bring down its prey
- What left bite marks on one of the biggest terror birds ever found
- Why the last terror bird standing was one of the smallest
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Black-legged Seriema video contributed by Pablo Hernan Capovilla, ML662237304
- Red-legged Seriema audio contributed by Matthew D. Medler, ML189557
- Black-legged Seriema audio contributed by Steven L. Hilty, ML83854
Okay, but what happens when a bird gets sick?
With Dr. Andrea Townsend
E42. Birds get sick too, and a lot of what happens next looks surprisingly familiar. Dr. Andrea Townsend of Hamilton College has spent two decades following American crows through outbreaks, and she walks Scott …
Show notes
E42. Birds get sick too, and a lot of what happens next looks surprisingly familiar. Dr. Andrea Townsend of Hamilton College has spent two decades following American crows through outbreaks, and she walks Scott through what illness really does to a bird, from the family it belongs to down to the clever brain it depends on.
In this episode, you'll hear about:
- The surprising way crows choose their partners, and what it costs them when disease comes around
- What a stomach bug does to one of the cleverest birds you'll ever meet
- Why going it alone can be the riskier move while a virus is spreading
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- American Crow video contributed by Jay McGowan, ML472843
- Common Raven audio contributed by Gerrit Vyn, ML137574
- Burrowing Owl audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML188805
Okay, but griffins, and ligers, and birds, oh my!
With Dr. Glaucia Del-Rio
E41. Centaurs, mermaids, minotaurs: we have been inventing creatures that are two things at once for as long as we have told stories. Birds do it for real. Dr. Glaucia Del-Rio of the Florida Museum of Natural …
Show notes
E41. Centaurs, mermaids, minotaurs: we have been inventing creatures that are two things at once for as long as we have told stories. Birds do it for real. Dr. Glaucia Del-Rio of the Florida Museum of Natural History studies two Amazonian antbirds that meet where a river runs out, and what their offspring say about where one species ends.
In this episode, you'll hear about:
- Why a river can be an impossible barrier for a bird with perfectly good wings, and what researchers found when they carried birds out into the middle of one and let go
- How to spot a hybrid antbird at a glance, once you know which colors belong to which parent
- The German-Brazilian ornithologist an all-women expedition was named for, and the injury she dealt with herself, a long way from any hospital
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Red-capped Manakin audio contributed by David L. Ross Jr., ML57360
- Streak-headed Woodcreeper audio contributed by Ted Parker, ML21543
- American Flamingo audio contributed by Gerrit Vyn, ML172484
- Lawrence's Warbler (hybrid) audio contributed by Curtis Marantz, ML113786
- Brewster's Warbler (hybrid) audio contributed by Curtis Marantz, ML76906
Additional photos and video courtesy of Glaucia Del-Rio: Marco Rego, Fabio Schunck, Luis Morais, and Angela Prochilo. Harlequin Antbird photo by Hector Bottai, via Wikimedia Commons, licensed CC BY-SA 4.0 (creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/).
Okay, but... cranes!
E40. There are only 15 crane species on the planet, and 11 of them are in trouble. Dr. Andy Caven, Director of Central Flyway Programs for the International Crane Foundation, has spent his career on two of …
Show notes
E40. There are only 15 crane species on the planet, and 11 of them are in trouble. Dr. Andy Caven, Director of Central Flyway Programs for the International Crane Foundation, has spent his career on two of them: the sandhill cranes that pour into one stretch of Nebraska's Platte River every spring, and the whooping crane, which came back from the edge and is still nowhere near safe. Scott asks him what it actually takes to keep a bird like that on the landscape, and the answer runs through soggy grassland, private ranches, and one river worth fighting over.
In this episode, you'll hear about:
- The number Andy gives for how many cranes stand on that stretch of river, which Scott makes him say twice
- How a bird that was down to a couple of dozen individuals ended up stopping a dam
- What a wet meadow is, and why one is so much easier to lose than to build back
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Mallard audio contributed by Mike Andersen, ML136504
- Wilson's Phalarope audio contributed by W. Douglas Robinson, ML474658841
- Swamp Sparrow audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML94352
Okay, but why does that bird look so rough?
E39. Every August the questions start: there is a cardinal at the feeder with no head feathers, and it looks terrible. Nothing is wrong with it. It is molting, which every bird does at least every year. Dr …
Show notes
E39. Every August the questions start: there is a cardinal at the feeder with no head feathers, and it looks terrible. Nothing is wrong with it. It is molting, which every bird does at least every year. Dr. Ryan Terrill of the San Diego Natural History Museum studies what a feather endures over a year and what it takes to replace one, and he makes the case that the few weeks a bird spends looking its worst may be the most consequential weeks it has.
In this episode, you'll hear about:
- Why the cardinal at your feeder in late summer looks like it lost a fight
- What a bird quietly gives up during the weeks it is growing new feathers
- The hundreds of miles some birds fly for the sake of a new set of feathers
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Northern Cardinal audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML191165
- American Goldfinch audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML94457
- Blue Jay audio contributed by Gaetan Dupont, ML173749
- Herring Gull audio contributed by Sarah MacLean, ML165927
- American Herring Gull video contributed by Steve Kelling, ML540908261
- Snow Bunting audio contributed by Gerrit Vyn, ML130973
- Red-tailed hawk audio contributed by David McCartt, ML229578
- White-throated Sparrow audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML219799
- Great Hornbill audio contributed by Linda Macaulay, ML111527
- Flightless Cormorant audio contributed by Linda Macaulay, ML237486
Okay, but what's up with feathers?
E38. You have pulled one out of a jacket sleeve at a bad angle, picked one up on a walk, and you are almost certainly within arm's reach of a few thousand of them right now. Dr. Cody Limber, who recently …
Show notes
E38. You have pulled one out of a jacket sleeve at a bad angle, picked one up on a walk, and you are almost certainly within arm's reach of a few thousand of them right now. Dr. Cody Limber, who recently finished his PhD at Yale, spent it taking growing feathers apart one cell at a time to find out what they are actually made of. A feather is not a fancy scale, it does not grow the way you would guess, and after all this time nobody can say what the first ones were for.
In this episode, you'll hear about:
- The strangest things growing out of birds, and which of them actually count as feathers
- What a feather is actually made of, once you smash one into individual cells and read what every cell was doing
- What a feather actually is, whether it is alive or dead, how it is put together, and the coordination that color and pattern demand
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Eastern Whip-poor-will audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML195774
- Red-bellied Woodpecker audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML306064
- Indian Peafowl audio contributed by Rounak choudhary, ML621021542
- Common Raven audio contributed by Gerrit Vyn, ML132161
- Mallard audio contributed by Mike Andersen, ML136504
- Double-crested Cormorant audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML233274
- Zebra Finch (Australian) audio contributed by Vicki Powys, ML226233
- American Herring Gull video contributed by Steve Kelling, ML540908261
- Golden-winged Warbler video contributed by Benjamin Clock, ML476422
- Great Argus audio contributed by Arnoud B. van den Berg, ML71122
- Horned Screamer audio contributed by Paul A. Schwartz, ML58925
- Wild Turkey audio contributed by James (Jim) Holmes, ML73964601
Okay, but does age bring Wisdom?
E37. A bird called Wisdom was banded on Midway Atoll in 1956 and is still laying eggs today, which makes her at least 75 and the oldest known wild bird on the planet. She has also outlived the man who banded …
Show notes
E37. A bird called Wisdom was banded on Midway Atoll in 1956 and is still laying eggs today, which makes her at least 75 and the oldest known wild bird on the planet. She has also outlived the man who banded her, and most of the scientists who tracked her since. Dr. Etienne Rouby studies long-lived seabirds at the Institute of Arctic and Alpine Research at CU Boulder, working with data from the French sub-Antarctic islands where wandering albatross have been followed for more than half a century. Scott asks him what you can learn from a bird that will outlast your career, your funding, and possibly your field station.
In this episode you'll hear about:
- What a fledgling albatross does for the first five years of its life, and why nobody really knows
- The fishing gear change that pulled a colony back from the brink, and how long it took to see it working
- Why a very good year for female albatross is a very bad year for the males
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Snowy Albatross audio contributed by Ted Parker, ML42306
- Black-browed Albatross audio contributed by Jan Hansen, ML650026815
Okay, but do hummingbirds ever chill?
E36. Hummingbirds run one of the fastest metabolisms of any animal with a backbone, which is why we picture them as permanently buzzing. Scott sits down with Dr. Anusha Shankar, assistant professor at the Tata …
Show notes
E36. Hummingbirds run one of the fastest metabolisms of any animal with a backbone, which is why we picture them as permanently buzzing. Scott sits down with Dr. Anusha Shankar, assistant professor at the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research, who studies how hummingbirds budget energy in a world that keeps moving the goalposts. It turns out the blur at your feeder is the exception, not the rule.
In this episode you'll hear about:
- Why the same bird might spend three hours a day flying, or thirteen, depending entirely on what the flowers are doing
- What happens overnight when a hummingbird lets itself go cold, and how long it takes to come back
- Seven months in the Ecuadorian cloud forest, and the hummingbirds that sat on the nets and waited
Plus: the doubly labeled water method, a sugar concentration threshold you can taste-test at your own feeder at your own risk, and the reason Anusha gets called the hummingbird pee person.
The "snoring" hummingbird video Scott and Anusha discuss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uEfmQt34Nc
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Ruby-throated Hummingbird audio contributed by Trenton Voytko, ML604314061
- Black Metaltail audio contributed by Pedro Allasi Condo, ML663268821
- Violet-tailed Sylph audio contributed by Paul Coopmans, ML58045
- White-booted Racket-tail audio contributed by Daniel Cadena, ML256331
- Bee Hummingbird video contributed by Timothy Barksdale, ML440270
Black Metaltail photograph by Thibaud Aronson, via iNaturalist and Wikimedia Commons, licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0.
Okay, but what's the deal with Darwin's finches?
E35. Eighteen species of small brown bird on a pile of volcanic rock have taught us more about how evolution actually works than almost anything else on Earth. Not because Darwin figured them out. He didn't …
Show notes
E35. Eighteen species of small brown bird on a pile of volcanic rock have taught us more about how evolution actually works than almost anything else on Earth. Not because Darwin figured them out. He didn't. Because a handful of scientists went back, banded every bird on one island, and watched it happen in real time. Scott heads to the Galapagos with Dr. Erik Enbody, Assistant Professor of Computational Biology at Cornell University, to find out how one ancestor became eighteen, why the beak is the only thing worth looking at, and what happens when species that aren't supposed to interbreed start swapping genes anyway.
In this episode you'll hear about:
- The island so small you can band every bird on it, and the drought that killed almost all of them
- One gene that explains 40% of beak size, when nothing in human height explains even 1%
- The finch that does something mind-blowingly villainous and what it says about how far evolution will go
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Large Ground-Finch audio contributed by Robert I. Bowman, ML85965
- Common Cactus-Finch audio contributed by Robert I. Bowman, ML86715
- Small Tree-Finch audio contributed by Robert I. Bowman, ML85464
- Vegetarian Finch audio contributed by Robert I. Bowman, ML82506
- Galapagos Mockingbird audio contributed by Robert I. Bowman, ML45963
- Española Mockingbird audio contributed by Herb Elliott, ML638777433
- Floreana Mockingbird audio contributed by Robert I. Bowman, ML85455
- San Cristobal Mockingbird audio contributed by Arnoud B. van den Berg, ML28656
- Palm Tanager audio contributed by Curtis Marantz, ML88937
- Blue-footed Booby audio contributed by Robert I. Bowman, ML85906
- Vampire Ground-Finch audio contributed by Robert I. Bowman, ML86756
- Woodpecker Finch audio contributed by Robert I. Bowman, ML82522
- Paradise Tanager audio contributed by Curtis Marantz, ML127399
- Galápagos Sea Lion audio contributed by Arnoud B. van den Berg, ML125020
Okay, but what's the deal with nests?
E34. Not all birds build one, but for the ones that do, a nest has a single job and a shockingly wide range of ways to get it done. Dr. Vanya Rohwer, Curator of Birds and Mammals at the Cornell University …
Show notes
E34. Not all birds build one, but for the ones that do, a nest has a single job and a shockingly wide range of ways to get it done. Dr. Vanya Rohwer, Curator of Birds and Mammals at the Cornell University Museum of Vertebrates, joins Scott to walk the far end of that spectrum, from nests made entirely of spit to a colony structure heavy enough to snap the tree it sits in.
In this episode you'll hear about:
- The complete and comical inventory of one hamerkop nest, read aloud, contents included
- What a bird does when you hand it a nest somebody else already built
- Why a shed snakeskin in a tree cavity is a calculated decoration
New episodes every Thursday. If the show is doing it for you, leave a rating or hit follow.
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But… Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Bird media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- American Robin audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML206448
- Baltimore Oriole audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML219606
- Black-legged Kittiwake audio contributed by Roger Charters, ML202491
- White-nest Swiftlet audio contributed by Arnoud B. van den Berg, ML36421
- Cliff Swallow audio contributed by James (Jim) Holmes, ML92053871
- Chimney Swift audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML107413
- Hamerkop audio contributed by Anonymous, ML97562
- Eastern Whip-poor-will audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML195774
- Montezuma Oropendola audio contributed by David L. Ross Jr., ML215446
- Western Grebe audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML195029
- Rufous Hornero audio contributed by Mike Andersen, ML132447
- Northern Yellow Warbler audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML516692
- Sociable Weaver audio contributed by Jacob Henry, ML637193738
- Great Crested Flycatcher audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML94314
- Blue-gray Gnatcatcher audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML534430
- White-breasted Nuthatch audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML306062
Okay, but how do birds handle a heatwave?
E33. When the air temperature climbs past a bird's own body temperature, staying cool stops being free and starts to cost them water they may not have. Dr. Blair Wolf, University of New Mexico, has spent his …
Show notes
E33. When the air temperature climbs past a bird's own body temperature, staying cool stops being free and starts to cost them water they may not have. Dr. Blair Wolf, University of New Mexico, has spent his career studying how desert birds survive heat that should kill them, and what happens when it finally gets too hot.
In this episode you'll hear about:
- Why some backyard birds can shrug off oven-like temperatures while others just a few feet away don't make it
- The strange, water-saving trick birds use to dump heat without a single drop of sweat
- What the birds dying in these heatwaves are trying to tell us about what's coming
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Bird media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- White-winged Dove audio contributed by Raphaël Nussbaumer, ML571978241
- Verdin audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML197163
- Black-throated Sparrow audio contributed by James (Jim) Holmes, ML573935831
- Black-throated Sparrow video contributed by Benjamin Clock, ML483211
- Mourning Dove audio contributed by James (Jim) Holmes, ML583603101
- Mourning Dove audio contributed by Anonymous, ML658417476
- Palm Cockatoo audio contributed by Emma Greig, ML201266
- Rosy-faced Lovebird audio contributed by Derek Solomon, ML168222
- Common Eider audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML235534
Okay, but how does wildfire smoke impact birds?
E32. Wildfire smoke is blanketing more of the map every year, and it turns out a smoky sky changes everything for birds, from how they breathe to whether we can find them at all. Dr. Olivia Sanderfoot, Research …
Show notes
E32. Wildfire smoke is blanketing more of the map every year, and it turns out a smoky sky changes everything for birds, from how they breathe to whether we can find them at all. Dr. Olivia Sanderfoot, Research Scientist at the Cornell Lab of Ornithology, is back to walk Scott through what all that haze is doing to the birds living in it.
In this episode:
- Birds don't breathe the way we do, and that single fact shapes everything about how smoke hits them
- Stay, shift, or go: the framework for what a bird actually does when the air turns toxic
- When the birds go quiet, it isn't always because they left
Data collection for Project Phoenix is open now through the end of November. If you're on the West Coast, you can sign up at projectphoenix.study and log a 10-minute count from wherever you are, even your own window.
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Bird media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Northern Yellow Warbler audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML516692
- Black-Crowned Night Heron audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML225814
- Tufted Titmouse audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML100712
- Cooper’s Hawk audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML94518
- Bornean Orangutan audio contributed by John MacKinnon, ML82019
- American Robin audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML206448
Okay, but did birds invent music?
E31. If a bird sings a phrase worthy of Beethoven, is that music, or just biology in a nice outfit? Dr. Hollis Taylor, a violinist, composer, and ornithologist, has spent more than two decades recording and …
Show notes
E31. If a bird sings a phrase worthy of Beethoven, is that music, or just biology in a nice outfit? Dr. Hollis Taylor, a violinist, composer, and ornithologist, has spent more than two decades recording and transcribing the songs of the Pied Butcherbird, an Australian songbird whose vocal life keeps blurring that line.
In this episode:
- How a single pied butcherbird can sing for seven hours through the night, almost never repeating itself, then return the next spring with a brand new repertoire
- What a violin can and can't reproduce when it tries to follow a butcherbird, from steep glissandos to rattles a human instrument simply cannot make
- The case for birdsong as music
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Bird media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Winter Wren audio contributed by Matthew D. Medler, ML136183
- Hermit Thrush audio contributed by Matthew D. Medler, ML169025
- Wood Thrush audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML168331
- White-throated Sparrow audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML219799
- Australian Magpie audio contributed by Emma Greig, ML218159
- Willie-wagtail audio contributed by Cedar Mathers-Winn, ML188954
- Humpback Whale audio contributed by Flip Harrington, ML123414
Pied Butcherbird song and composition excerpts courtesy of Dr. Hollis Taylor (piedbutcherbird.net, piedbutcherbird.com).
Okay, but is the dawn chorus getting quieter?
E30. That wall of birdsong outside your window at sunrise has a name, a structure, and a surprising amount of drama. This week Scott talks with Dr. Dan Mennill, a professor at the University of Windsor who …
Show notes
E30. That wall of birdsong outside your window at sunrise has a name, a structure, and a surprising amount of drama. This week Scott talks with Dr. Dan Mennill, a professor at the University of Windsor who wires whole forests with microphones to eavesdrop on the entire neighborhood at once, about what the dawn chorus is actually for, and what it means when it starts to thin out.
In this episode:
- Why dawn, why so loud, and who gets to sing first (hint: it's not about who's the best singer)
- What 16 microphones and kilometers of cable revealed about birds negotiating in real time
- What happened when one field site went quiet, and why that quiet is louder than it sounds
Listen now, then tell us what your morning chorus sounds like.
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Bird media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Soundscape contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML516838
- Black-throated Green Warbler contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML79475
- American Redstart contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML100804
- Tufted Titmouse contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML100712
- Northern Cardinal contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML191165
- Northern Flicker contributed by William V. Ward, ML3
- Black-capped Chickadee contributed by Bob McGuire, ML197114
- American Robin contributed by Bob McGuire, ML206448
- Alder Flycatcher contributed by Mike Andersen, ML132247
- Savannah Sparrow contributed by Gerritt Vyn, ML137843
- Chipping Sparrow contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML534466
- White-crowned Sparrow contributed by Bob McGuire, ML207181
- Red-tailed Hawk contributed by David McCartt, ML229578
Okay, but what's it like as a bird at the top of the world?
E29. Standing at 11,000 feet, lungs burning, Scott watched birds go about their afternoon in the exact thin air that had nearly taken him out. This week he sits down with Dr. Chris Witt, evolutionary biologist …
Show notes
E29. Standing at 11,000 feet, lungs burning, Scott watched birds go about their afternoon in the exact thin air that had nearly taken him out. This week he sits down with Dr. Chris Witt, evolutionary biologist at the University of New Mexico and curator of birds at the Museum of Southwestern Biology, who has spent his career figuring out how birds make a living in the thinnest air on Earth. From the hummingbird blood that rewrites itself to match a mountainside to a five-pound coot that has no business existing, this one is about the birds thriving where our bodies would quit.
In this episode:
- Why a single Andean slope can stack dozens of hummingbird species right on top of each other, each locked to its own band of elevation
- How the same oxygen-grabbing protein keeps evolving the same way, over and over, in a pattern so predictable it runs in reverse
- The record-holders pulling off things up high that sound like they shouldn't be possible
Chris doesn't just tell us about these birds, he shows us, so you may want to watch this one.
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Bird media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- House Finch audio contributed by William R. Fish, ML12932
- Giant Coot audio contributed by Steven L. Hilty, ML56377
Okay, but does easy living make birds dumber?
E28. A bird's brain is the most expensive thing it owns, and evolution doesn't hand one out for free. Dr. Carlos Botero, Associate Professor at the University of Texas at Austin, has spent a decade tracing what …
Show notes
E28. A bird's brain is the most expensive thing it owns, and evolution doesn't hand one out for free. Dr. Carlos Botero, Associate Professor at the University of Texas at Austin, has spent a decade tracing what variable, unforgiving environments actually do to bird cognition, and the answer flips a lot of conventional wisdom on its head.
In this episode:
- Why the harshest places on Earth produce two kinds of birds: the puzzle-solving geniuses and the brute-force survivors, with almost nothing in between
- How big brains might not have evolved for the reasons we always assumed
- Why being one of the smartest birds in the sky can come with a hidden cost
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Bird media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Willow Ptarmigan audio contributed by Leonard J. Peyton, ML50031
- American Crow audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML229089
- Blue Jay audio contributed by Gaetan Dupont, ML173749
- Black-capped Chickadee audio contributed by Jay McGowan, ML202239
- Snowy Owl audio contributed by Gerrit Vyn, ML138288
Okay, but... pigeons!
E27. They’ve been called "rats with wings," but pigeons are actually elite athletes, historical icons, and evolutionary marvels. Scott chats with Dr. Elizabeth Carlen, a postdoc at the Living Earth …
Show notes
E27. They’ve been called "rats with wings," but pigeons are actually elite athletes, historical icons, and evolutionary marvels. Scott chats with Dr. Elizabeth Carlen, a postdoc at the Living Earth Collaborative at Washington University in St. Louis, to look past the common stereotypes and uncover the remarkable biology of the Rock Pigeon.
In this episode, you’ll hear about:
- The deep historical bond between humans and pigeons and how domestic birds successfully transitioned back into the wild.
- How pigeons navigate the constant threat of specialized hunters like Peregrine Falcons and Red-tailed Hawks.
- How mapping the DNA of feral pigeons across the Northeastern US revealed that their population structure surprisingly mirrors human geography, and what flight distances can tell us about their urban evolution.
If you enjoy this one, follow Okay, But… Birds and share it with a friend who needs to give pigeons a second look.
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Bird media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Blue Jay audio contributed by Gaetan Dupont, ML173749
- Rock Pigeon (Feral Pigeon) audio contributed by James Kimball, ML3891
- Peregrine Falcon audio contributed by Mike Andersen, ML136378
- Red-tailed Hawk audio contributed by David McCartt, ML229578
Okay, but did birds originate the open relationship?
E26. We borrowed a phrase from human dating and tried to pin it on birds. Turns out they never needed the rulebook. Dr. Wenfei Tong, biologist and author of Bird Love, joins Scott to unpack what bird …
Show notes
E26. We borrowed a phrase from human dating and tried to pin it on birds. Turns out they never needed the rulebook. Dr. Wenfei Tong, biologist and author of Bird Love, joins Scott to unpack what bird partnerships actually look like once you stop projecting our scripts onto them, from females who run the territory to males who guard their paternity in deeply weird ways.
In this episode you'll hear about:
- Why the drabbest little brown bird in the garden has one of the wildest sex lives in the animal kingdom
- How a female calls the shots when she holds the better real estate, and what the males do about it
- The cloacal pecking payoff you have to hear to believe
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Bird media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Laysan Albatross audio contributed by Ted Miller, ML117679
- Black-capped Chickadee audio contributed by Jay McGowan, ML202239
- Spotted Sandpiper audio contributed by Lucas DeCicco, ML516963
- Northern Jacana audio contributed by Gerrit Vyn, ML140224
- Red-necked Phalarope audio contributed by Bob McGuire, ML235440
- Black Coucal audio contributed by Myles E. W. North, ML3084
- Papuan Eclectus audio contributed by Thane Pratt, ML169808
- Red-winged Blackbird audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML249827
- Red-winged Blackbird audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML94215
- Red-capped Manakin audio contributed by David L. Ross Jr., ML57360
- Blue-footed Booby audio contributed by Robert I. Bowman, ML85906
- Greater Flamingo audio contributed by Myles E. W. North, ML2443
- Dunnock audio contributed by Niels Krabbe, ML249162
Okay, but... boobies!
E25. The blue-footed booby has become an internet personality: cartoon feet, a goofy strut, a name that practically begs to be a punchline. But Scott sat down with Dr. Carlos Zavalaga, Universidad Científica …
Show notes
E25. The blue-footed booby has become an internet personality: cartoon feet, a goofy strut, a name that practically begs to be a punchline. But Scott sat down with Dr. Carlos Zavalaga, Universidad Científica del Sur, and one of the people who first taught him how to study seabirds in Peru, and the "fool" reputation falls apart fast. Get a booby in the air or underwater and you're watching one of the most specialized hunters in the bird family tree.
In this episode you'll hear about:
- How six-plus booby species carve up the same ocean without starving each other out
- What 20 years of GPS loggers, depth tags, and bags of fresh fish revealed about who eats what
- Why El Niño, avian flu, and overfishing keep stacking the deck against these birds
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Bird media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Blue-footed Booby audio contributed by Robert I. Bowman, ML85906
- Red-footed Booby audio contributed by Robert I. Bowman, ML85911
- Brown Booby audio contributed by Gerritt Vyn, ML136211
- Masked Booby audio contributed by Chandler Robbins, ML32604
- Nazca Booby audio contributed by Oliver H. Hewitt, ML31543
- Peruvian Booby audio contributed by Ted Parker, ML29399
Okay, but what about birds that can't fly?
E24. Flight is the thing we associate most with birds, so what does it mean when a lineage gives it up? Dr. Scott Edwards, Harvard, joins Scott to unpack how flightlessness evolves, why it keeps happening …
Show notes
E24. Flight is the thing we associate most with birds, so what does it mean when a lineage gives it up? Dr. Scott Edwards, Harvard, joins Scott to unpack how flightlessness evolves, why it keeps happening across the bird family tree, and what the genome reveals about how a bird loses the ability to fly.
In this episode you'll hear about:
- How losing flight reshapes a bird's body, from feathers to forelimbs to that one famously enormous egg
- Why the answer wasn't where geneticists expected to find it
- What an extinct giant and a tiny tropical relative can tell us about where moa actually came from
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Bird media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Falkland Steamer-Duck audio contributed by Maurice A. E. Rumboll, ML4114
- Great Tinamou audio contributed by David L. Ross, Jr., ML57320
Okay, but can a bird really cooperate with humans?
E23. Across sub-Saharan Africa, wild birds and people work together to find honey. No taming, no breeding, no domestication… just a partnership thousands of years in the making. Behavioral ecologist Dr. Jessica …
Show notes
E23. Across sub-Saharan Africa, wild birds and people work together to find honey. No taming, no breeding, no domestication… just a partnership thousands of years in the making. Behavioral ecologist Dr. Jessica van der Wal, FitzPatrick Institute of African Ornithology, joins Scott to unpack what's actually happening when a honey hunter calls and a greater honeyguide answers.
In this episode you'll hear about:
- What each side gets out of one of the only known mutualisms between humans and a wild animal, and why this bird in particular evolved to seek us out
- The remarkable signal the honeyguide uses to communicate with people, and what playback experiments revealed when researchers tested it across very different communities
- What happens to a partnership built over generations when one side starts buying honey at the store
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Bird media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Greater Honeyguide audio contributed by Jennifer F. M. Horne, ML55972
Additional media courtesy of Dr. Claire Spottiswoode and Dr. Jessica van der Wal
Okay, but can birds predict the weather?
E22. Folklore says birds know a storm is coming before we do. Scott talks with Dr. Gunnar Kramer, Iowa State University, about what's actually happening when a tiny warbler decides it's time to fly, or time to …
Show notes
E22. Folklore says birds know a storm is coming before we do. Scott talks with Dr. Gunnar Kramer, Iowa State University, about what's actually happening when a tiny warbler decides it's time to fly, or time to bail.
In this episode:
- Why the question itself might be slightly wrong, and what's really going on inside that bird
- A storm, some missing warblers, and a discovery nobody set out to make
- What 300 birds falling out of the sky over Texas can tell you about how much fuel is in the tank
Listen, follow, and tell a friend who’s a little superstitious.
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Bird media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Yellow-billed cuckoo audio, Wil Hershberger, ML94446
- Barnacle goose audio, Bob McGuire, ML235525
- Golden-winged warbler video, Benjamin Clock, ML476422
- Blue-winged warbler video, Eric Liner, ML469433
- Yellow-billed cuckoo video, Larry Arbanas, ML466566
- Eastern kingbird audio, Wil Hershberger, ML534398
- Tennessee warbler audio, Wil Hershberger, ML85236
- Tennessee warbler video, Eric Liner, ML466381
- Wood thrush video, Benjamin Clock, ML471755
Okay, but can birds smell?
E21. We're talking sense and scents with Dr. Danielle Whittaker, Oregon State, and author of The Secret Perfume of Birds, who spent a decade unraveling a 200-year-old myth that started with John James Audubon …
Show notes
E21. We're talking sense and scents with Dr. Danielle Whittaker, Oregon State, and author of The Secret Perfume of Birds, who spent a decade unraveling a 200-year-old myth that started with John James Audubon and a dead pig under a bush.
In this episode:
- The bird that smells like a fresh-baked sugar cookie
- Why preen oil is a dating profile written in chemistry, and how seabirds use the same chemical cue that's now leading albatross parents to feed their chicks plastic
- The bonus myth Danielle wants gone
New here? Listen, follow, and tell a friend who still thinks birds can't smell.
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Bird media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Brown-headed Cowbird audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML94262
- Dark-eyed Junco audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML94361
- Red Knot audio contributed by Lucas DeCicco, ML516895
- Crested Auklet audio contributed by Sampath Seneviratne, ML132014
- Laysan Albatross audio contributed by Ted Miller, ML117679
Okay, but what can we learn from a drawer of birds?
E20. Less than 1% of what's in a museum is actually on display. So what's happening with the other 99%? Scott talks with Dr. Sushma Reddy, Breckenridge Chair of Ornithology at the Bell Museum and Associate …
Show notes
E20. Less than 1% of what's in a museum is actually on display. So what's happening with the other 99%? Scott talks with Dr. Sushma Reddy, Breckenridge Chair of Ornithology at the Bell Museum and Associate Professor at the University of Minnesota, about the extraordinary scientific afterlife of a specimen in a drawer.
In this episode:
- How birds collected 150 years ago are answering questions their collectors never imagined, from air pollution to insect decline
- Why falcons turned out to be closer to parrots than hawks, and what other surprises fell out of the bird family tree
- The case for making museum collections more open, especially to scientists from the places these specimens originally came from
If you have a few seconds, please follow, rate, and leave a review for the show. It makes a huge difference in helping others discover it. Thanks for listening!
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Bird media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- Bald eagle sound contributed by Gerrit Vyn, ML 200943
- Red-tailed hawk sound contributed by David McCartt, ML 229578
- Gyrfalcon sound contributed by Lucas DeCicco, ML 516973
- Kea sound contributed by William V. Ward, ML 8523
- Small ground finch sound contributed by Robert I. Bowman, ML 86711
- Iiwi sound contributed by Doug Pratt, ML 5888
- Sickle-billed vanga sound contributed by Anonymous, ML 100013
Okay, but are bird feeders helping or hurting?
E19. More than 55 million Americans feed birds, and it's not exactly clear the birds asked us to. Dr. Olivia Sanderfoot, Research Scientist and Project Leader of FeederWatch at the Cornell Lab of Ornithology …
Show notes
E19. More than 55 million Americans feed birds, and it's not exactly clear the birds asked us to. Dr. Olivia Sanderfoot, Research Scientist and Project Leader of FeederWatch at the Cornell Lab of Ornithology, joins Scott to unpack what four decades of data tell us about whether feeding birds helps them, hurts them, or is really just for us.
In this episode you'll hear about:
- Why bird feeding is mostly for us, and the handful of moments when it actually tips the scales for birds
- What forty years of FeederWatch data reveal about shifting ranges, feeder dominance, and the bird that definitely should not be bossing everyone around
- How to keep your yard from becoming an ecological trap, plus the best way to feed birds that doesn't involve a feeder at all
Ready to join the longest-running winter bird monitoring program in North America? Sign up for Project FeederWatch's 40th season at feederwatch.org. You don't even need a feeder.
Want more exclusive clips from this and future episodes. Signup for our newsletter, Bird Droppings, at okaybutbirds.com to get bonus content not available anywhere else!
All audio, video, and images in this episode are either original to Okay, But... Birds (© Okay Media, LLC) or used under license/permission from the respective rights holders. Bird media from the Macaulay Library is used courtesy of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology as follows:
- European robin audio contributed by Matthew D. Medler, ML140049
- Cooper's hawk audio contributed by Wil Hershberger, ML94518
- American crow video contributed by Jay McGowan, ML472843
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