Skip to content

04 | The Challenger Legacy: The Devil You Know

February 10, 2026 · 26 min

Show notes

In the wake of twin disasters two decades apart, how do we make sense of why they happened?

In episode four, we find out what happened on the very first flight after Columbia — and ask whether NASA changed at all.

To hear more podcast episodes from hosts Fiona Pepper and Dr Karl Kruszelnicki about the legacy the 1986 Challenger space shuttle disaster left on culture, space exploration and high-risk decision making, search ‘Science Friction: The Challenger Legacy podcast’ from Radio National (RN) on the ABC Listen App (Australia), or wherever you get your podcasts.

Guests:

Mike CiannilliFormer Columbia integration systems engineer, NASA

Miles O'BrienAerospace correspondent, CNN

Adam HigginbothamAuthor, Challenger: A True Story of Heroism and Disaster on the Edge of Space

Mark MaierDistinguished professor of leadership, Chapman University, California

Eileen CollinsFormer astronaut; commander, STS-114

Credits:

  • Presenters: Fiona Pepper and Karl Kruszelnicki
  • Reporter: Fiona Pepper
  • Senior Producer: James Bullen
  • Series Producer: Jonathan Webb
  • Executive Producer: Petria Ladgrove
  • Sound Engineer: Tim Jenkins
  • Archives Research: Lisa Chidlow, Michael Osmond

This story was made on the lands of the Gadigal and Menang Noongar peoples.

All episodes of Science Friction

Settings

Display

Language

Decides which stations you see first on the home page.

History

Recently played stations and episodes and your latest searches are only stored in this browser.

Notifications

A short notice when a podcast you follow has a new episode. Turn off single podcasts with the bell on their page.

Account

Save favorites – in the app and on the website.

Keyboard shortcuts

/
Open search
Space
Play or pause
← →
In the player: back 15 s, forward 30 s (episodes) · in a row: next tile
↑ ↓
In a row: target within the tile
Home / End
In a row: first or last tile
Esc
Close window or menu
?
This overview
Now playing

Go to station page

Play next

    Add episodes with “Play next” – they play after the current episode.