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Startups For the Rest of Us
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Startups For the Rest of Us

by Rob Walling

NewEpisode 858 | How to Build Products People WantNovember 10, 2026 · 25 min
Episodes
329
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weekly
Latest episode
Nov 10, 2026
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About the podcast

The original podcast for bootstrapped and mostly bootstrapped startups, this show follow the stories of founders as they start, acquire, and grow SaaS companies. Hear when they fail, struggle, succeed, and take you with them through the tumultuous life of a SaaS founder. If you like Mixergy, This Week in Startups, or SaaStr, you’ll enjoy Startup for the Rest of Us.

Episodes 329

  1. Episode 858 | How to Build Products People Want

    25 min

    If AI can build anything, how do you decide what to build? In this episode, Rob Walling celebrates the launch of his sixth book, Idea to Traction: Stop Building SaaS Nobody Wants in the Age of AI. He shares why …

    Show notes

    If AI can build anything, how do you decide what to build?

    In this episode, Rob Walling celebrates the launch of his sixth book, Idea to Traction: Stop Building SaaS Nobody Wants in the Age of AI. He shares why he wrote it, how it started as part of The SaaS Playbook, and why he rewrote it three times. Plus, why every second- and third-time founder still validates before they build, and why AI can speed up building but not learning.

    Topics we cover:
    • (0:41) – Idea to Traction: Stop Building SaaS Nobody Wants in the Age of AI is available
    • (2:32) – Why Rob wrote another book
    • (4:56) – How the book began inside The SaaS Playbook
    • (6:33) – Rewriting the book three times
    • (8:57) – Why validation still matters with AI
    • (10:50) – Grinding until the work finally clicks
    • (12:22) – Endorsements from Jason Cohen and Derek Sivers
    • (15:28) – Who Idea to Traction is for
    • (16:25) – What the book covers, from ideas to traction
    • (18:26) – SaaS isn't dead, and moats keep changing
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  2. Episode 857 | Finding Hidden Multipliers in Your Business (with Jason Cohen)

    51 min

    What if raising your prices could actually bring in more customers? In this episode, Rob Walling welcomes back Jason Cohen, founder of WP Engine and SmartBear, to dig into his book, Hidden Multipliers. They …

    Show notes

    What if raising your prices could actually bring in more customers?

    In this episode, Rob Walling welcomes back Jason Cohen, founder of WP Engine and SmartBear, to dig into his book, Hidden Multipliers. They talk about finding your profit whales, why raising prices can actually increase sales, and how pitching more value instead of savings can 8x what you charge. Jason also shares the free AI skills he built to grill founders like a rude journalist, and why the best strategy starts with building a company in the shape of you.

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    Topics we cover:
    • (3:23) – Why Jason finally wrote his first book
    • (5:38) – What makes a multiplier "hidden"
    • (8:06) – Profit whales and your unprofitable customers
    • (14:40) – Raising prices from $35 to $1,300 a seat
    • (18:44) – Why WP Engine lowered its entry price
    • (23:08) – Selling more value instead of savings
    • (28:35) – Charging for implementation and price testing on calls
    • (31:32) – Free AI skills and finding your Carol
    • (38:37) – Inside the Smart Bear Live podcast
    • (41:41) – Building a company in the shape of you
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  3. Episode 856 | Key Learnings from MicroConf Europe 2026

    45 min

    What did you miss at our biggest MicroConf Europe ever? In this episode, Rob Walling and Derrick Reimer recap MicroConf Europe 2026 in Reykjavik, Iceland. They break down the talks on ranking in ChatGPT and AI …

    Show notes

    What did you miss at our biggest MicroConf Europe ever?

    In this episode, Rob Walling and Derrick Reimer recap MicroConf Europe 2026 in Reykjavik, Iceland. They break down the talks on ranking in ChatGPT and AI SEO, Rob's eight moats that still work in the age of AI, and Corey Haines on marketing skills for Claude. Plus, the hallway track, a stunning venue, and a hike to a geothermal river at the top of an Icelandic mountain.

    Topics we cover:
    • (2:11) – Traveling to Iceland and Rob's road trips
    • (5:12) – Biggest MicroConf Europe ever, by the numbers
    • (8:04) – The Harpa venue and the hallway track
    • (13:30) – George Chasiotis and Aleyda Solis on AI SEO
    • (19:44) – Jacob Wright on UX as a moat
    • (21:26) – Agnese Jaunošāne on riding the AI wave
    • (23:25) – Rob's talk: eight moats in the AI age
    • (34:00) – Will AI stop writing human-readable code?
    • (38:14) – Corey Haines on marketing skills for Claude
    • (41:01) – Excursions and a geothermal river hike
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  4. Episode 855 | The Eight SaaS Moats that Still Work in the Age of AI

    1 h

    Which SaaS moats are left in 2026? In this episode, Rob Walling and Einar Vollset walk through the 10 ways AI is attacking SaaS companies, from customers vibe coding the app to per-seat revenue disappearing …

    Show notes

    Which SaaS moats are left in 2026?

    In this episode, Rob Walling and Einar Vollset walk through the 10 ways AI is attacking SaaS companies, from customers vibe coding the app to per-seat revenue disappearing entirely. They then dig into the 8 moats they believe still work in the age of AI, with real examples like Stripe, Gusto, SignWell, and Gymdesk.

    They finish with how founders can go on offense, including why the biggest opportunity may be to stop selling the tool and start doing the work.

    Topics we cover:
    • (06:02) – The SaaSpocalypse and conflicting market signals
    • (07:24) – How Einar researched durable SaaS moats
    • (11:48) – Which SaaS businesses AI will flatten
    • (14:20) – Attacks 1 and 2: Customers vibe code, competitors catch up
    • (16:52) – Attack 3: Open source gets good enough
    • (17:23) – Attack 4: Platforms ship your feature free
    • (18:06) – Attack 5: Custom software at SaaS-ish prices
    • (19:11) – Attack 6: AI models absorb your product
    • (19:57) – Attack 7: Your customers stop existing
    • (21:48) – Attack 8: Per-seat revenue disappears
    • (22:45) – Attack 9: The roles you serve vanish
    • (23:25) – Attack 10: Your workflow step becomes obsolete
    • (24:09) – Old moats that no longer protect you
    • (25:56) – Eight moats that still work today
    • (26:30) – Moat 1: Buyers know and trust you
    • (28:28) – Moat 2: You're the system of record
    • (30:10) – Moat 3: You're allowed to act
    • (31:28) – Moat 4: Customers don't check your work
    • (32:51) – Moat 5: Someone official already said yes
    • (36:08) – Moat 6: Everyone's already in it
    • (38:03) – Moat 7: Every customer makes you smarter
    • (40:47) – Moat 8: It's hard to keep running
    • (44:14) – How do we not get sideswiped by AI?
    • (54:46) – Why learning loops are the strongest moat
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  5. Episode 854 | How to Find Startup Ideas (Sneak Peek Chapter from My New Book)

    23 min

    Where do the best SaaS ideas actually come from? In this episode, Rob reads a chapter from his new book, Idea to Traction: Stop Building SaaS Nobody Wants in the Age of AI. He walks through the five places …

    Show notes

    Where do the best SaaS ideas actually come from?

    In this episode, Rob reads a chapter from his new book, Idea to Traction: Stop Building SaaS Nobody Wants in the Age of AI. He walks through the five places problems tend to show up, eight strategic approaches for finding and shaping a product idea (with real examples), and when it makes sense to replicate an existing idea.

    Pre-order the hardback before November 10th to get bonus PDFs, a seat in a live Q&A to ask your early stage questions, and a free copy of the ebook or audiobook ideatotractionbook.com.

    Topics we cover:
    • (1:41) – Why Rob wrote Idea to Traction
    • (3:29) – What the new book covers
    • (6:03) – Pre-order bonuses and live Q&A
    • (7:32) – Chapter three: how to find startup ideas
    • (9:09) – Solve a problem, not a moonshot
    • (10:34) – Five places problems come from
    • (12:52) – Approach 1: Translate an idea to a new niche
    • (13:50) – Approach 2: Find a hated competitor
    • (14:57) – Approach 3: Build on your audience
    • (16:04) – Approach 4: Build on your network
    • (16:50) – Approach 5: Undercut a clunky enterprise competitor
    • (17:49) – Approach 6: Enter a fast-growing ecosystem
    • (19:15) – Approach 7: Build on an existing product
    • (20:13) – Approach 8: Audit your day job spending
    • (21:20) – Can you replicate an existing idea?
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  6. Episode 853 | How to Become the SaaS That AI Recommends

    31 min

    How do you get LLMs to actually recommend your SaaS? In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Ross Hudgens, founder of Siege Media and author of the new book Generative Engine Optimization, about how SaaS …

    Show notes

    How do you get LLMs to actually recommend your SaaS?

    In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Ross Hudgens, founder of Siege Media and author of the new book Generative Engine Optimization, about how SaaS companies get recommended by ChatGPT, Gemini, and the AI tools customers now use to shop. They cover why "best X" roundups and versus articles outperform, how much Reddit actually matters, and what a bootstrapped founder should do first to start showing up in AI search.

    Topics we cover:
    • (1:28) – SEO's evolution into GEO
    • (3:01) – Why Ross wrote his new AI SEO book
    • (3:58) – An S&P 100 client's SEO team gets laid off
    • (5:29) – Is GEO separate from traditional SEO?
    • (6:33) – Why publish "best category" roundup articles
    • (11:06) – Versus articles: an underrated GEO tactic
    • (14:14) – Handling competitor pushback on comparison pages
    • (16:57) – Recruiting YouTubers and using affiliate listings
    • (21:47) – Reddit's real influence on AI search
    • (25:38) – First GEO steps and how to measure visibility
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  7. Episode 852 | Getting Big Name Customer Case Studies and More Listener Questions (with Ruben Gamez)

    32 min

    Should you be worried that another founder will steal your idea if you ask them for advice? In this episode, Rob is joined by Ruben Gamez to answer four listener questions: whether reaching out to more advanced …

    Show notes

    Should you be worried that another founder will steal your idea if you ask them for advice?

    In this episode, Rob is joined by Ruben Gamez to answer four listener questions: whether reaching out to more advanced founders puts your idea at risk, how to convince big name customers to agree to a case study, what to do when a platform ecosystem (like Shopify's app store) turns hostile, and how to sell a B2G SaaS product when your sales cycle only runs during the hours you're already at a day job.

    Want to get your question answered? Submit your question for an upcoming episode.

    Topics we cover:
    • (1:59) – Fear that outreach could get an idea stolen
    • (3:50) – Why no one actually steals ideas
    • (9:12) – Getting copied is inevitable once you're public
    • (13:45) – How to land big brand case studies
    • (15:39) – Using discounts to secure case studies
    • (18:11) – Shopify's fake review extortion
    • (20:21) – Should you move to a standalone SaaS
    • (25:06) – B2G SaaS around a day job
    • (28:29) – Why GovTech rarely attracts angel investment
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  8. Episode 851 | The Messy Middle of a SaaS Pivot

    44 min

    How do you pivot your SaaS when things aren’t working? This week Rob talks with Nathan Tyler, founder of BlinkMetrics, about the messy, uncertain process of finding product market fit in real time. Nathan walks …

    Show notes

    How do you pivot your SaaS when things aren’t working?

    This week Rob talks with Nathan Tyler, founder of BlinkMetrics, about the messy, uncertain process of finding product market fit in real time. Nathan walks through why his original EOS scorecard idea didn't work, how hundreds of coffee chats led to a done for you reporting business, and why he just launched a second product, BlinkPages, right in the middle of it all.

    Topics we cover:
    • (2:43) – The Staging Pilot exit to Pantheon
    • (4:44) – BlinkMetrics origin story
    • (5:59) – 104 coffee chats, real revenue
    • (8:09) – Why not launch 12 products in 12 weeks
    • (9:39) – Launching a second product: BlinkPages
    • (13:09) – Squarespace to BlinkPages migration
    • (17:03) – Why static sites beat WordPress now
    • (21:02) – Knowing when to pivot
    • (25:26) – Market pull vs. shiny object
    • (32:10) – Pricing migrations, hosting, and AI costs
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  9. Episode 850 | How Not to Screw Up When Hiring Your first Developer and More Listener Questions (with Derrick Reimer)

    51 min

    How do you onboard a hire onto a codebase you built alone? In this episode, Derrick Reimer joins Rob to tackle four listener questions. They cover hiring and onboarding your first developer as a bootstrapped …

    Show notes

    How do you onboard a hire onto a codebase you built alone?

    In this episode, Derrick Reimer joins Rob to tackle four listener questions. They cover hiring and onboarding your first developer as a bootstrapped founder, then move into the temptation to build features just because AI makes them cheap to ship, getting past social anxiety as a founder, and whether it's worth trademarking your product name.

    Topics we cover:
    • (3:59) – How do you hire your first developer?
    • (5:14) – Qualities to look for in a first developer hire
    • (13:37) – Onboarding a new hire into your codebase with AI
    • (16:49) – Reducing hiring risk: pairing, reliability, recruiters
    • (22:50) – The temptation to build features just because AI makes it cheap
    • (30:43) – Getting over social anxiety as a founder
    • (35:25) – Is trademarking your product name worth it?
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  10. Episode 849 | Legal Threats, AI as Platform Risk, Building Confidence, and More Listener Questions (Rob Solo)

    29 min

    Ever gotten a vague cease and desist from a competitor and wondered if you actually did something wrong? This week I tackle four listener questions: how seriously to take competitor terms of service threats …

    Show notes

    Ever gotten a vague cease and desist from a competitor and wondered if you actually did something wrong?

    This week I tackle four listener questions: how seriously to take competitor terms of service threats, whether AI is really a platform risk (or just a feature risk), how to build confidence and get past the fear of reaching out to prospects, and when a non-founder employee should walk away from a company that's missing founder activation energy.

    Want to get your question answered? Submit your question for an upcoming episode.

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    Topics we cover:
    • (01:05) – Are terms of service threats legitimate?
    • (04:25) – No attorney-client privilege with LLMs
    • (06:39) – AI as platform risk explained
    • (08:21) – Will AI subsume your features?
    • (10:55) – Will AI costs drop over time?
    • (14:22) – Mitigating LLM downtime risk
    • (16:06) – Structuring an enterprise pilot program
    • (17:56) – Building confidence despite social anxiety
    • (23:05) – When to quit as a non-founder
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  11. Episode 848 | What Liquid Death Can Teach Us About B2B SaaS (Rob Solo)

    23 min

    Does validation still matter when AI has made building software almost free? In this solo episode, Rob breaks down the origin story of Liquid Death, the canned water company now valued at over a billion …

    Show notes

    Does validation still matter when AI has made building software almost free?

    In this solo episode, Rob breaks down the origin story of Liquid Death, the canned water company now valued at over a billion dollars, and pulls out the mental models that apply directly to B2B SaaS. He covers why ideas come from being in the arena, how founder Mike Cessario validated the concept with a fake product before manufacturing anything, and why "I just want to build" is usually an excuse worth dropping.

    Topics we cover:
    • (1:05) – Where the Liquid Death idea came from
    • (4:12) – Mike Cessario's punk and advertising background
    • (5:22) – The backstage Monster tour water insight
    • (7:18) – Ideas come from being in the arena
    • (8:02) – Why "give me 10 ideas" doesn't work
    • (9:35) – Putting in the reps to build skills
    • (11:23) – Why validation still matters with AI
    • (12:11) – How Cessario validated with a fake product
    • (15:46) – The repeatable framework behind it all
    • (18:07) – Learning from outliers and the bootstrapper's gift
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  12. Episode 847 | What Second Time Founders Do Differently, Pricing AI Agents, and More Listener Questions (Rob Solo)

    29 min

    Would you spend a year on distribution for a product that doesn't exist yet? In this solo episode, Rob answers listener questions about how second and third-time founders think differently, from filtering a …

    Show notes

    Would you spend a year on distribution for a product that doesn't exist yet?

    In this solo episode, Rob answers listener questions about how second and third-time founders think differently, from filtering a dozen good ideas down to one, to why distribution and validation matter more the second time around. He also digs into how to sell and price AI agents, and whether a long enterprise sales cycle is worth the wait for a bootstrapper.

    Want to get your question answered? Submit your question for an upcoming episode.

    Topics we cover:
    • (2:54) – Selecting an idea after an exit
    • (5:26) – Using spreadsheets and advisors to filter
    • (8:52) – Founder retreats for big decisions
    • (10:01) – How to sell an AI agent
    • (12:32) – Pricing agents on value replaced
    • (17:13) – What later-stage founders care about
    • (18:59) – Distribution and validation for repeat founders
    • (23:12) – Long enterprise sales cycles
    • (26:33) – Optimizing for learning speed
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  13. Episode 846 | Snail Mail, Cold Calling, Regulating Your Nervous System, and More Listener Questions (Rob Solo)

    30 min

    Is your nervous system sabotaging your best decisions? In this episode, Rob mixes a solo adventure with listener questions. He answers a reader who asks why he still shows up to write, record, and build, then …

    Show notes

    Is your nervous system sabotaging your best decisions?

    In this episode, Rob mixes a solo adventure with listener questions. He answers a reader who asks why he still shows up to write, record, and build, then digs into regulating your nervous system when you have to do something that scares you. He wraps with two listener questions on direct snail mail outreach and on cold calling in an industry you know nothing about.

    Want to get your question answered? Submit your question for an upcoming episode.

    Topics we cover:
    • (04:41) – Why does Rob still write, record, and build?
    • (08:55) – Regulating your nervous system under fear
    • (15:55) – Direct snail mail outreach for SaaS
    • (18:44) – Cold calling an unfamiliar industry
    • (20:27) – How to learn a new skill fast
    • (21:08) – Finding trusted sales resources
    • (27:01) – Learning Facebook ads the hard way
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

    Rob Walling: Welcome back to another episode of Startups for the Rest of Us. I'm your host, Rob Walling. And in this episode, I'm going to mix a couple formats. I have some listener questions, but I also have a solo adventure topic that I want to talk about. And so I'm going to combine those along with a really interesting question, kind of an inside baseball question I got from a reader of my email newsletter where he asked, "Why do you do what you do? Why do you still do it?" And it was a fun question for me to ponder. I think we should all be asking ourselves why we do what we do. Before we dive into those topics and questions, I am launching the wait list for my next book. I've been talking about this book for a few years. It was previously titled The SaaS Launchpad, but I have changed the title.

    It's now titled Idea to Traction: Stop Building SaaS Nobody Wants, Even in the Age of AI. And this book covers from coming up with ideas to validating them, to building a launch list, to launching and getting some early traction. You can think of it as, honestly, it's an updated version of Start Small, Stay Small 16 years later and updated for the age of AI. It's also the prequel to The SaaS Playbook. The SaaS Playbook says you have a product in market, you have some weak product market fit, some traction. Idea to Traction covers the steps before that. So if you want to get to it right now, it's ideatotractionbook.com. So as I think about Start Small, Stay Small and all of the requests that I've received to update that book over the last 16 years, I tried to start with Start Small, Stay Small and just edit it, but you can't do that.

    So much has changed. So much has changed. The philosophy of bootstrapping and mostly bootstrapping still holds, but everything else, all the other pieces and parts just had to be disassembled. So even these days, a lot of folks who aren't developers are now building software and building SaaS, right? And Start Small, Stay Small was a developer's guide to launching a startup. That was the title. It didn't say anything about bootstrapping. It certainly didn't say anything about SaaS, but these days, whether it's no code or vibe coding or partnering, there's a lot of non-developers. And Idea to Traction is focused on SaaS, as you can tell by the subtitle. Even in the age of AI though, some SaaS will succeed. We know that SaaS is seeing headwinds, but there are a lot of types of SaaS companies that are going to be okay. And that's what Idea to Traction covers.

    I've spent the last two months really focusing in on adding all types of comments and thoughts around how AI impacts each of the steps. There's a validation step and I talk about why AI doesn't mean that you can just skip it. I give examples of that from real life founders who have validated recently in the past six months. So the approaches are battle tested recently. These are not five or 10 year old approaches. And it's all of my current thinking on how to go from idea to launch and gaining early traction. And of course, product-less marketing first [VERIFY: "product glass marketing first"] is something that I haven't said since Start Small, Stay Small. And I bring it up in the book, in the introduction actually. I'm really excited. I've been working on this book for too long. Since The SaaS Playbook, actually. It was originally part of The SaaS Playbook, but The SaaS Playbook is what, 210 pages maybe?

    And Idea to Traction is I think 260 or 270 pages. It's long and I didn't want a 500 page book. So I broke it out and I've had to continuously update it as AI has come out and affected everything. So I just submitted the manuscript to my editor a few days ago, and that's how hot off the press this is. If you want to get on the wait list, I'm going to notify you as soon as the book is ready for pre-order. And you're going to get access to a live Q&A that I'll be doing all about early stage SaaS. You will only get access to that Q&A if you are on this wait list. And I'm also going to send you some pretty important resources like worksheet and checklist type things that you can use straight away without the book, but they are pulled from the content of the book.

    And it's not AI slop crap. We've spent a lot of time, my team and I, putting together something that we hope can be genuinely useful. So that's ideatotractionbook.com. And if you enter your email there, you'll be the first to know and you'll hear about the live Q&A and receive all of those resources.

    I'd like to dive into my first topic of the day. This was in response to an email that I sent out. If you go to robwalling.com/emails, you can get on my email list where I am sending out essays with original think pieces. It was every week and now it's about every week or two, but I'm hoping to get back on the weekly train soon. And I'm going to keep this responder anonymous because I did not get permission to share their name. But they said, "I'm excited to read the book." I think this is The SaaS Playbook. "For $10," because you can get it on Kindle or I think I saw PDF for $10. "For $10, it was a steal given the value I got from watching your content. The video, What SaaS Buyers Actually Want in 2026, and the great conference video on content marketing strategy."

    So these are a couple videos that we can link up in the show notes, but if you go to youtube.com/robwalling, you can see both of those. And so this person says, "I was just wondering, why do you do this? As in, do you derive the most pleasure from your conference, your accelerator, or just getting your content out there? I'm curious what inspires you today?" And it's such an interesting question, right? I've answered it a bit on the show before in the sense of I don't need to work. I could retire. I could have retired years ago actually. And yet I keep doing stuff. Since being able to retire, I've written three or four books. I've recorded at least 400 podcast episodes and hundreds of YouTube videos and started the Accelerator, continued to run and grow MicroConf. So why do I do it? There's a couple things for me.

    One, I love having an impact on people, like a positive impact. And I really enjoy putting out a book and having the SaaS Playbook I think has sold 55,000 copies. And for a self-published book, that's not bad. It's really not bad. It's my best selling book of all time across all my books. Sold well over a hundred thousand copies. That's fun to me. As hard as writing books is and creating all these podcast episodes and the YouTube videos and such, it really does bring me joy to put things out in the world and then hear people put them to use and have it change their lives. That is probably what gives me the most joy of anything that I do today. And for me, I'm wired that there also has to be some financial tie to it. If I'm not making money doing it, I struggle to stay motivated.

    That doesn't include my hobbies. I play the guitar. I don't make money on that. I play tabletop games. I definitely lose money on that because I spend so much money on these games. I hang out with my family. I love going out to eat. I hang out with friends. Obviously I don't need to make money doing those things. But if I'm doing something in the professional world where perhaps people are taking my advice and using it to make money, it feels like I should be in on that transaction. And even if I give away far more value than has come back to me, I'm okay with that. But as long as some comes back to me with selling conference tickets and there's sponsorships on this podcast and potentially making money from a TinySeed company's exit and we get carried because we run an accelerator as well as SaaS Institute, the coaching, the premium coaching program we have, we get money on a recurring basis for that.

    But that's not why I do it. That's just a need or a desire that I have in order to be fulfilled and to justify the time, effort and energy that I spend creating all of this content and thinking all of this through. So that's why I do it. It's to have an impact on a lot of people that brings me joy. And I've figured out a way to do that and make enough money to justify it and to hire the team, frankly. Between MicroConf and TinySeed, I think there are 10 of us and people make full-time salaries. These are mostly W-2 folks living in North America, so it's not cheap. And if I want to put out content and run an accelerator at the quality that we run, MicroConf as well obviously, and write books at the quality that I want to, that takes money.

    It takes a lot of time, money and effort. So I appreciated that question and hope you enjoyed hearing me talk it through. And if not, I hope you started hitting the 10 second skip button at some point. My next topic is one that I bet more people will skip than the topic I just covered. I want to talk for just a couple minutes about regulating your nervous system while you're doing something that scares you. And even to be honest, just noticing when your nervous system is flipping out. I didn't learn this skill until the last probably 10 years, which is way too late. I remember being so tied to whatever my body was doing, like anxiety, fears when I was 17, when I was in college, just these intense swaying feelings and I was my feelings. And I still know some people like this and it sucks when you don't recognize that a feeling is not you, a feeling is not permanent and it's not who you are, and that you should not be making big decisions when your nervous system is dysregulated, when you feel that tightness in your chest, when you're really concerned and worried and you're thinking in a pattern that really isn't that healthy.

    It's certainly not calm and it's certainly not a rational or a stable, grounded place to be, which is where you want to be to make decisions. So it wasn't until the last 10 years of therapy and really getting to know myself and really feeling those days when I would wake up and just feel massively anxious or wake up and feel a bit depressed. I don't have clinical depression, but some days I wake up and I feel melancholy. And on those days I would wake up and I used to say, "Everything sucks. Everything's going to zero. Why am I even doing this? Maybe I should sell the company. Maybe I should shut it down. Nothing's working." And now when I wake up and I feel that way, I think this is probably just for the first few hours of the day. Or maybe even if I feel this way the whole day, it's not real.

    Like that's not my reality. My feelings are not my reality. I didn't know that until 10, 12 years ago. And obviously if you're well adjusted and you don't have issues regulating your nervous system, good on you. Congratulations. That is not me. I should say that was not me. It is at this point, but I had to learn it. And I think the important thing I wish I'd known a lot earlier, even before I could regulate it, is to identify when I was feeling out of sorts and to realize, oh, this isn't normal. This feeling in my chest, this tightness in my chest or this anxiety or this fear or this, again, depression, whatever these swaying emotions are, these aren't a good place to make a big decision and they don't represent me. They just represent a feeling. That's the first step. The second step is to learn to regulate it yourself.

    And you might need help. You might need a therapist. You might need medication. And I'm sure there are other approaches that I could probably get Dr. Sherry Walling on the show to talk about. This is not something I'm an expert in other than I've gone through it myself. And I know some folks at different stages of this. I have a friend I was talking to and they actually inspired this segment. They've been really trying to push through nervous system scariness, basically. When you get scared to do something risky, but you know you need to do it anyway and you resist it, but you should be doing it, that's a problem. That'll keep your life small. You won't ask for the raise. You won't ask the person out that you want to date. You won't stand up to someone at work. You won't stand up to your spouse or the person you're dating.

    There's a lot of things that you want to do, but if you're scared to do them and you let your nervous system override them, it will hold you back both personally and professionally. And so developing this skill is something important. And in order to do it, this friend of mine is practicing and doing things that scare them over and over. And it gets a little easier each time. You've heard me talk on the show about the first time I ever published a blog post back in 2005. I was terrified, which is just laughable now. Why would I be scared of publishing a blog post? For some reason, writing an essay and publishing it on the internet terrified me. Hair stood up on the back of my neck. I got cold sweats. I thought, what if people judge me? What if people hate me? All these things.

    And it got a little easier with the second one and the 10th one and the 100th one. Honestly, by the 50th one, I just didn't care anymore. I wasn't worried. Same thing, first podcast episode of the show. I was terribly, terribly nervous. Yeah, it terrified me. First time I got on stage to do a talk, completely dysregulated. First time I emceed one of my events, completely shattered. First YouTube video I did. I've been recording this podcast for years. And the first YouTube video I recorded was a mess. I was so nervous being on camera. It's such a trip how these things change. And you know how I got through each of them? By doing them over and over. Repetition. By standing up, being scared and doing it anyway. And sometimes you can just do it through brute force. You just do it over and over and you become accustomed to it.

    And now when I get on stage at MicroConf to MC the event, I'm nervous a tiny bit before I get up and for about 30 seconds and then it's done. And that did not used to be the case. And if you've ever MC'd a big event, it can be nerve wracking. But through repetition and through learning how to regulate my nervous system, that's the other thing. The brute force is just doing it over and over, but also learning the slow breathing and the self-talk of, "Hey, it's going to be all right. This is not reality right now. This is just how you're feeling." And honestly, for me, it's music. So I have a handful of songs that I can play and I will play them on loop if needed that pull me back into a place of calm. And I can feel the warmth fill my chest and I can feel my body relax and enter into a place of calm and peace and grounding.

    And if you think that I sound super woo-woo and new age, I would not classify myself as someone who is new age or woo or whatever term you want to put on it. I would classify myself as someone who for most of my life struggled with anxiety massively and figured out how to manage that and to regulate my nervous system over the last 10 years. And again, to reiterate, the reason this is important, to learn to do this, is A, so that you can do new things because doing new scary things is how you grow. It's how you get better. It's a huge part of entrepreneurship. It's a huge part of being a human who gets better over time. I think all of us should be growing and looking back six months ago and saying, "Wow, who was that person? They're so different than I am now," because you are learning and expanding and becoming a better human each day.

    And because this can help you both personally and professionally to take the risks and stand up for yourself and do things that are scary, but you do them anyway. And each time you do it, you're going to get a little better at it and it's going to be a little easier. My next topic is a listener question. Just going to have a couple more listener questions and then we'll wrap up. But this one is from March of 2025. It is a text question. And of course, text questions go to the bottom of the stack, which is why it has taken a while for me to get to it. Question comes from Jeremy Oakes. It's about direct snail mail. Jeremy asks, "I run SaaS for managed IT companies and I'm having trouble with marketing problem awareness through product awareness. And I think the use of ad blockers and email rules by my target market is part of the issue.

    However, I can identify potential clients using public data. My question is, is direct snail mail outreach, either letters or gift boxes, something you've seen work well before?" And Jeremy is with automationtheory.com. The answer is, I have seen this work for folks. The first question is, do you have the annual contract value to support this? Because if you're selling something for $5,000 a year and you're trying to do direct snail mail, which will likely be accompanied with cold calling, if you're going to spend this type of money to send a gift box, I think I would want to educate myself on ABM. And there are books out there on this topic that you can look at and I'm sure there are influencers. What's the Startups for the Rest of Us equivalent for sales folks and ABM folks? It has to be out there. So the answer is it can work.

    The couple of challenges are you need a high enough annual contract value to justify it and you need cash upfront because especially at the start, you're going to send a lot of letters or

  14. Episode 845 | Lifetime Deals Revisited, Building is Not the Hard Part, and Confirming an Idea is Worth Paying For (Rob Solo)

    33 min

    What does it take to make a lifetime deal work? In this listener questions episode, Rob Walling revisits the lifetime pricing debate with new context from Davis Baer of Youform. He also tackles why building is …

    Show notes

    What does it take to make a lifetime deal work?

    In this listener questions episode, Rob Walling revisits the lifetime pricing debate with new context from Davis Baer of Youform. He also tackles why building is rarely the hard part, how bootstrappers get shut out of startup discount programs, what to watch for when signing customer agreements ahead of an acquisition, and why nearly every successful second or third time founder does real validation before they build.

    Want to get your question answered? Submit it here.

    Topics we cover:
    • (1:58) – Davis Baer on lifetime deals for Youform
    • (5:03) – Lifetime pricing question
    • (7:49) – Why lifetime deals need built-in virality
    • (10:47) – Building is not the hard part
    • (12:11) – Why startup programs won't help bootstrappers
    • (14:53) – Signing customer agreements and NDAs
    • (19:20) – What buyers check during acquisition
    • (21:40) – The validation vs just launching debate
    • (23:26) – How successful founders actually validate
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  15. Episode 844 | Building a $1M+ ARR SaaS for Laundromats

    43 min

    What does it take to build a seven figure SaaS in a market almost no one thinks about? In this episode, Rob Walling sits down with Brian Henderson, co-founder of Wash-Dry-Fold POS, to walk through the 10-year …

    Show notes

    What does it take to build a seven figure SaaS in a market almost no one thinks about?

    In this episode, Rob Walling sits down with Brian Henderson, co-founder of Wash-Dry-Fold POS, to walk through the 10-year arc of building it in one of the most overlooked markets there is: laundromats. From selling other people's hardware as a scrappy reseller, to teaching himself to rebuild the entire product on no-code during COVID, to competing head-on against a rival that has raised $220 million in venture capital, Brian shares why staying bootstrapped became his biggest advantage.

    Episode Sponsor:

    What if you could go from idea to your first real user in 30 days?

    Not a prototype, not a promise, but an actual working app. Designli will put that in writing.

    Their TractionLab is a 90-day plan that takes you from idea to first paying customers. By Day 30, v1 of your app is in your users' hands, guaranteed. Miss that deadline and your next month is free.

    It starts with a free 30-minute call where you share your idea and they tell you exactly what they'll build and what it costs. No surprises.

    You get a full senior team: product owner, engineering lead, full-stack developer, senior UX designer, and solutions architect. They use AI to ship faster, but senior engineers own every architecture decision and review every line of code. The result is yours, and it's built to last.

    Go from idea to revenue in 90 days: designli.co/gettraction

    Topics we cover:
    • (2:41) – What software for laundromats actually does
    • (5:41) – Hitting seven figures with seven people
    • (6:33) – Bootstrapping with only $100
    • (7:39) – Why no laundromat software existed
    • (10:18) – Starting as a value-added reseller
    • (18:35) – Rebuilding on Bubble during COVID
    • (24:56) – Running a large no-code SaaS
    • (31:28) – Hardware as a competitive moat
    • (33:43) – Competing against a VC-backed rival
    • (39:32) – Selling hardware to cover CAC
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  16. Episode 843 | Success Patterns of $1M+ SaaS Founders

    34 min

    Are you building systems for your team, or are you still the system? In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Julien Marzouk, a former SaaS founder and coach who has worked with hundreds of seven and eight …

    Show notes

    Are you building systems for your team, or are you still the system?

    In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Julien Marzouk, a former SaaS founder and coach who has worked with hundreds of seven and eight figure founders over the past decade. Julien breaks down six recurring patterns he sees in founders who scale past a million, from the identity shift of moving from operator to leader, to the visibility problems that get mistaken for lead problems.

    Topics we cover:
    • (2:59) – Why seven-figure founders seek coaching
    • (5:50) – Coach versus mastermind, key differences
    • (9:44) – Mindset shift to be coached well
    • (12:05) – Pattern 1: Operator to leader
    • (14:05) – Pattern 2: Doing too many things
    • (18:17) – Pattern 3: The rescuing founder
    • (21:45) – Pattern 4: Visibility disguised as leads
    • (25:36) – Pattern 5: Action beats analysis paralysis
    • (28:55) – Pattern 6: Clarity before AI agents
    • (32:07) – What coaching at SaaS Institute involves
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  17. Episode 842 | What is the Future of SaaS in an AI World? (Rob Solo)

    25 min

    Is SaaS dead now that AI can build an app in a weekend? In this solo episode, Rob Walling gives his most definitive answer yet to the question flooding the internet: what's the future of SaaS now that AI makes …

    Show notes

    Is SaaS dead now that AI can build an app in a weekend?

    In this solo episode, Rob Walling gives his most definitive answer yet to the question flooding the internet: what's the future of SaaS now that AI makes it easier than ever to build and copy a product? He breaks down the four most common claims that AI will kill Saas, and explains why the real SaaS apocalypse is coming for overpriced incumbents, not bootstrappers.

    Topics we cover:
    • (2:15) – What's the future of SaaS with AI?
    • (3:08) – Why "X is dead" predictions keep failing
    • (5:12) – Claim 1: The self-hosting fantasy
    • (11:39) – Claim 2: Anyone can clone your app
    • (13:32) – Claim 3: Agents will do the work
    • (16:34) – Claim 4: Infinite competition
    • (18:02) – Which SaaS categories genuinely get squeezed
    • (19:06) – The real apocalypse: Overpriced incumbents
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  18. Episode 841 | One-time Payments, Growing a Step 2 Business, Positioning, and More Listener Questions (Rob Solo)

    28 min

    Should you keep pouring time into a business that will probably never be huge? In this episode, Rob Walling answers listener questions about whether to keep growing a "step two" B2C business despite platform …

    Show notes

    Should you keep pouring time into a business that will probably never be huge?

    In this episode, Rob Walling answers listener questions about whether to keep growing a "step two" B2C business despite platform risk, when one-time payments make sense versus subscriptions, and how to price and position a Shopify app that needs custom implementation work.

    Want to get your question answered? Drop it here.

    Episode Sponsor:

    What if you could go from idea to your first real user in 30 days?

    Not a prototype, not a promise, but an actual working app. Designli will put that in writing.

    Their TractionLab is a 90-day plan that takes you from idea to first paying customers. By Day 30, v1 of your app is in your users' hands, guaranteed. Miss that deadline and your next month is free.

    It starts with a free 30-minute call where you share your idea and they tell you exactly what they'll build and what it costs. No surprises.

    You get a full senior team: product owner, engineering lead, full-stack developer, senior UX designer, and solutions architect. They use AI to ship faster, but senior engineers own every architecture decision and review every line of code. The result is yours, and it's built to last.

    Go from idea to revenue in 90 days: designli.co/gettraction

    Topics we cover:
    • (2:06) – Growing a "step two" business
    • (5:11) – Momentum vs. market size
    • (9:16) – One-time payments vs. subscriptions
    • (15:11) – Why recurring revenue teaches faster
    • (18:22) – Mixing one-time and subscription pricing
    • (20:28) – Pricing a custom Shopify app
    • (22:31) – Building a $49 vs. $249 tier
    • (24:47) – Protecting margin on custom work
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  19. Episode 840 | 5 PM Revisited, Starting Over After Failure, Never Shipping, and More Listener Questions (Rob Solo)

    33 min

    What's really stopping you from shipping your product and how do you finally push through? In this listener questions episode, Rob Walling covers a lot of ground: revisiting the 5PM framework with more …

    Show notes

    What's really stopping you from shipping your product and how do you finally push through?

    In this listener questions episode, Rob Walling covers a lot of ground: revisiting the 5PM framework with more opinionated guidance on pricing and market size, the right time to use vibe coding in your SaaS, why B2C apps are brutal, how to rebuild after startup failure, and the mindset shift needed to finally ship.

    Want to get your question answered? Submit it here.

    Topics we cover:
    • (2:19) – 5PM framework revisited
    • (7:01) – When does vibe coding make sense?
    • (10:26) – Why B2C SaaS is brutally hard
    • (13:46) – Rebuilding after failure without funding or network
    • (17:46) – Targeting solution-aware vs. problem-aware customers
    • (20:49) – The never-shipping trap and how to break out
    • (23:28) – Best resources for pre-product-market-fit founders
    • (24:34) – How to validate without paid traffic
    • (28:41) – Cold outreach economics for self-serve products
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  20. Episode 839 | The Journey Growing Help Scout to $35M ARR

    36 min

    What happens when a bootstrapper at heart raises $28 million and spends the next decade living with that decision? In this episode, Rob Walling sits down with Nick Francis, the co-founder of Help Scout, to walk …

    Show notes

    What happens when a bootstrapper at heart raises $28 million and spends the next decade living with that decision?

    In this episode, Rob Walling sits down with Nick Francis, the co-founder of Help Scout, to walk through the full 15-year arc of building one of the most beloved support tools in SaaS. From the cramped Techstars apartment he shared with a co-founder, to the decision to become a public benefit corporation, to the bold pricing overhaul that ultimately became a turning point in his time as CEO, Nick holds nothing back.

    Topics we cover:
    • (2:00) – Help Scout's origin story
    • (4:30) – Techstars $18K for 6% equity
    • (7:56) – Getting the first 50 customers
    • (11:13) – Raising a $12M Series A
    • (13:37) – Would Nick raise again?
    • (19:23) – Becoming a B Corp
    • (22:27) – Help Scout's AI strategy
    • (26:02) – Per-seat to per-contact pricing
    • (32:03) – Stepping down as CEO
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  21. Episode 838 | 6 Key Takeaways From a TinySeed Batch Kick-Off

    26 min

    What do 15 brand-new TinySeed founders have in common? In this solo episode, Rob Walling shares six key takeaways from the most recent TinySeed batch kickoff in New York City. He covers why asking "why" is the …

    Show notes

    What do 15 brand-new TinySeed founders have in common?

    In this solo episode, Rob Walling shares six key takeaways from the most recent TinySeed batch kickoff in New York City. He covers why asking "why" is the most underrated founder habit, why pricing is still the biggest lever in SaaS and positioning might be the second biggest, why AI SEO is already a real channel and more. He also makes the case for why being around other founders doing what you're doing is one of the most underrated advantages in bootstrapping.

    Episode Sponsors:

    What if you could go from idea to your first real user in 30 days?

    Not a prototype, not a promise, but an actual working app. Designli will put that in writing.

    Their TractionLab is a 90-day plan that takes you from idea to first paying customers. By Day 30, v1 of your app is in your users' hands, guaranteed. Miss that deadline and your next month is free.

    It starts with a free 30-minute call where you share your idea and they tell you exactly what they'll build and what it costs. No surprises.

    You get a full senior team: product owner, engineering lead, full-stack developer, senior UX designer, and solutions architect. They use AI to ship faster, but senior engineers own every architecture decision and review every line of code. The result is yours, and it's built to last.

    Go from idea to revenue in 90 days: designli.co/gettraction

    Topics we cover:
    • (5:59) – Takeaway #1: Always ask why
    • (8:42) – Takeaway #2: New revenue fixes everything (except bad pricing)
    • (10:29) – Takeaway #3: Positioning is the second biggest lever in SaaS
    • (16:32) – Takeaway #4: Quick test for your lowest pricing tier
    • (18:23) – Takeaway #5: AI SEO is a real channel
    • (21:20) – Takeaway #6: Be around people doing what you're doing
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  22. Episode 837 | How Do You Learn Product? and Optimizing Your Trial Funnel (with Ruben Gamez)

    43 min

    How does a founder actually learn the skill of product? In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Ruben Gamez of SignWell and Bidsketch to answer listener questions that turned into a much deeper conversation …

    Show notes

    How does a founder actually learn the skill of product?

    In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Ruben Gamez of SignWell and Bidsketch to answer listener questions that turned into a much deeper conversation than expected. They cover why friction works well for one of Ruben's products and kills conversions on the other, how to think about trial length and onboarding when users need more time, and what it actually takes to develop product instincts as a bootstrapped founder.

    Want to get your question answered? Drop it here.

    Topics we cover:
    • (4:00) – Friction in trial funnels: Bidsketch vs. SignWell
    • (8:26) – When to test friction vs. trust your gut
    • (10:44) – Testing with low volume
    • (16:56) – Trial length for project management SaaS
    • (18:47) – How do you learn product?
    • (21:39) – How Ruben developed product sense on the job
    • (23:21) – The two core product skills bootstrappers actually need
    • (29:42) – Product management vs. UX
    • (31:46) – Why product sense doesn't transfer between products
    • (34:07) – How fast you can build product sense
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  23. Episode 836 | The 5 A.I. Moats Acquirers Value Most

    34 min

    Is your SaaS actually protected from AI disruption, or are acquirers walking away without even looking? In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Einar Vollset of Discretion Capital for a front-lines SaaS M&A …

    Show notes

    Is your SaaS actually protected from AI disruption, or are acquirers walking away without even looking?

    In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Einar Vollset of Discretion Capital for a front-lines SaaS M&A market report, covering how the acquisition climate has shifted since 2021, why some PE firms now require at least one AI moat before they'll even look at a deal, and a breakdown of all five moats: hardware-software coupling, two-sided network effects, communication graph embeds, proprietary data with closed feedback loops, and operational switching costs.

    Topics we cover:
    • (2:05) – State of SaaS M&A from 2020 to today
    • (5:49) – Why 2021 was the best time to sell
    • (7:38) – How the 2022 downturn raised the acquisition bar
    • (8:59) – The SaaS apocalypse narrative and AI FUD
    • (12:26) – Why bootstrappers should care about exit markets
    • (15:52) – AI moat #1: Hardware-software coupling
    • (17:38) – AI moat #2: Marketplace scale and two-sided network effects
    • (20:05) – AI moat #3: Communication graph and relationship embed
    • (21:27) – AI moat #4: Proprietary data with closed feedback loops
    • (23:20) – AI moat #5: Operational embed and switching costs
    • (27:28) – Some PE firms now require at least one moat
    • (29:23) – AI-native SaaS faces even higher hurdles
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  24. Episode 835 | The Right Way to Use AI in Your Startup Marketing

    32 min

    Are you using AI in your marketing because it's actually good, or just because it's fast? In this episode, Rob Walling sits down with Taylor Hendricksen, a performance marketer who has managed tens of millions …

    Show notes

    Are you using AI in your marketing because it's actually good, or just because it's fast?

    In this episode, Rob Walling sits down with Taylor Hendricksen, a performance marketer who has managed tens of millions of dollars in ad spend across Meta and Google, to talk about where AI is genuinely useful and where it produces flat, mediocre output that makes you look like everyone else. They also dig into unconventional distribution channels, offer design, and why some of the best SaaS niches are the least exciting ones.

    Episode Sponsor:

    Your AI-generated code got you to V1. Now it's holding you back.

    Vibe coding is incredible for speed. But the codebase it leaves behind? Hidden security gaps, duct-tape architecture, features that break every time you ship. At a certain point you need professional engineering discipline, not more prompting.

    That’s where Designli's Engineering Intensive comes in. In two weeks, senior engineers audit your code, stress-test your infrastructure, surface vulnerabilities, and deliver a prioritized roadmap to get scale-ready. Total clarity on your product's health, with a money-back guarantee.

    Schedule your Engineering Intensive at designli.co/fortherestofus.

    Podcast listeners can also redeem a free Designli Impact Week.

    Topics we cover:
    • (5:04) – AI as boogeyman: proving value to customers
    • (6:59) – Human-first content vs. AI-generated content
    • (9:38) – Why AI produces average work by default
    • (13:05) – AI is the average of the internet
    • (16:18) – Overcoming artificial growth ceilings
    • (20:26) – Finding your avatar and positioning around real problems
    • (22:52) – Unconventional distribution: direct mail and video mailers
    • (25:52) – Crafting offers people feel stupid saying no to
    • (28:42) – Using AI for ops, research, and thought partnership
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  25. Episode 834 | Eric Ries Revisits The Lean Startup and Discusses How to Become Incorruptible

    40 min

    Is AI actually making your build-measure-learn cycle faster, or just making your work more average? In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Eric Ries, author of The Lean Startup, to revisit what's held up in …

    Show notes

    Is AI actually making your build-measure-learn cycle faster, or just making your work more average?

    In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Eric Ries, author of The Lean Startup, to revisit what's held up in Lean Startup thinking 15 years on, why AI speeds up building but can't replace human learning, and what drove Eric to write his new book, Incorruptible. Eric also shares the story of how the Long-Term Stock Exchange nearly died before it ever launched, and why Costco is the rare example of a company that figured out how to stay incorruptible.

    Topics we cover:
    • (3:48) – Lean Startup: 15 years later
    • (8:33) – How countercultural MVPs and pivots were
    • (11:02) – How AI changes build-measure-learn
    • (13:36) – Learning is still a human job
    • (15:43) – AI makes everyone's work more average
    • (17:39) – The Long-Term Stock Exchange story
    • (21:03) – How LTSE was nearly destroyed
    • (25:00) – A better definition of profit
    • (31:45) – Companies already living this way
    • (32:33) – The legend of Sol Price and Costco
    • (37:36) – Incorruptible: ethos plus integrity
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  26. Episode 833 | Success Patterns of Nobel Laureates, Developing Expertise, and From Zero to $10k (A Rob Solo Adventure)

    29 min

    What do Nobel Prize winners and successful bootstrappers have in common? In this solo episode, Rob Walling shares the story of how a TinySeed company went from near-zero revenue to $10,000-$20,000 a month …

    Show notes

    What do Nobel Prize winners and successful bootstrappers have in common?

    In this solo episode, Rob Walling shares the story of how a TinySeed company went from near-zero revenue to $10,000-$20,000 a month almost overnight, breaks down Claude Shannon's research on the habits that separated Nobel laureates from forgotten scientists, and explores why deep expertise looks like magic from the outside.

    Episode Sponsor:

    You're about to close a massive deal, and then your customer's legal team asks what happens if you get hacked.

    That's the nightmare YSecurity solves. They're 40 security engineers who've worked at Apple, Uber, Microsoft, Robinhood, Brex, and more. You don't hire them, you rent them by the hour, no massive salary, no expensive consultants. Just real experts helping you get SOC 2, ISO, and more.

    Set a monthly cap, know exactly what you're spending, and close the deal.

    Head to ysecurity.io/startups to book your free strategy call. Your first 8 hours are completely free.

    Topics we cover:
    • (2:46) – BlinkMetrics: from no product-market fit to $10-20K/month
    • (8:31) – 104 coffee chats, 24 sales calls
    • (10:25) – AI changes custom dashboard economics
    • (12:53) – What separates Nobel winners from the forgotten
    • (14:40) – Knowledge compounds like interest
    • (18:28) – Taking bigger swings vs. staying in your comfort zone
    • (19:36) – Going deep on one idea for years
    • (21:21) – Expertise that looks like magic
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes |Spotify

  27. Episode 832 | Going Full-time, When to Pivot, Building With Young Kids, and More Listener Questions (Rob Solo)

    34 min

    How do you leave a $400K salary to go all in on your business? In this solo episode, Rob Walling cranks through a backlog of listener questions on reducing risk with your startup to go full-time, when to …

    Show notes

    How do you leave a $400K salary to go all in on your business?

    In this solo episode, Rob Walling cranks through a backlog of listener questions on reducing risk with your startup to go full-time, when to register as a business, how to price a SaaS with seat ambiguity, when to pivot, and how to keep building when you have four kids under eight.

    Want to get your question answered? Drop it here.

    Episode Sponsor:

    Your AI-generated code got you to V1. Now it's holding you back.

    Vibe coding is incredible for speed. But the codebase it leaves behind? Hidden security gaps, duct-tape architecture, features that break every time you ship. At a certain point you need professional engineering discipline, not more prompting.

    That’s where Designli's Engineering Intensive comes in. In two weeks, senior engineers audit your code, stress-test your infrastructure, surface vulnerabilities, and deliver a prioritized roadmap to get scale-ready. Total clarity on your product's health, with a money-back guarantee.

    Schedule your Engineering Intensive at designli.co/fortherestofus.

    Podcast listeners can also redeem a free Designli Impact Week.

    Topics we cover:
    • (2:15) – Leaving a $400K salary to go full-time
    • (7:43) – When to officially register your business
    • (10:51) – Seat-based pricing with shared branding
    • (12:40) – When to get a design audit
    • (15:05) – How to calculate TAM for a Shopify app
    • (18:29) – Can a step one app break free of its marketplace?
    • (20:22) – How to know when it's time to pivot
    • (22:31) – Building a startup with four young kids
    • (25:30) – How to find ICP conversations without a network
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  28. Episode 831 | Written vs. Verbal Ad Copy, Selling Into a Low-Awareness Market, and More Listener Questions (Rob Solo)

    44 min

    Should your first customer pay you, or get your product for free? In this episode, Rob Walling answers listener questions on charging customer zero, what metrics to track for a seasonal transaction fee-based …

    Show notes

    Should your first customer pay you, or get your product for free?

    In this episode, Rob Walling answers listener questions on charging customer zero, what metrics to track for a seasonal transaction fee-based SaaS, what it really means to sell into a low-awareness market, and when freelancers help vs. hurt your bootstrapped business. He also calls in Producer Ron to break down exactly how he thinks about writing copy for a podcast ads. Want to get your question answered? Drop it here.

    Topics we cover:
    • (2:42) – Six years to overnight success
    • (4:55) – Should customer zero pay or get it free?
    • (8:42) – Writing ad copy for podcast ads
    • (15:14) – Metrics for a transaction fee-based SaaS
    • (18:40) – Moving from GMV-only to subscription plus fees
    • (20:38) – Selling into a low-awareness market
    • (23:53) – When bootstrappers struggle without problem awareness
    • (27:09) – Podcast music history editor Josh
    • (31:44) – How to find and work with freelancers
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  29. Episode 830 | Breaking Through Plateaus, Zero-Click Marketing, and More from MicroConf 2026 (with Derrick Reimer)

    36 min

    What were the highlights and takeaways from MicroConf? In this episode, Rob Walling and Derrick Reimer recap MicroConf US 2026 in Portland, Oregon. They break down the best talks from the event, including Jason …

    Show notes

    What were the highlights and takeaways from MicroConf?

    In this episode, Rob Walling and Derrick Reimer recap MicroConf US 2026 in Portland, Oregon. They break down the best talks from the event, including Jason Cohen on breaking through growth plateaus, Amanda Natividad on Zero-Click Marketing and broken attribution, Rob's framework for six ways to implement AI in SaaS, and Craig Hewitt's all-in take on AI adoption. Plus, they cover excursions, the hallway track, and why the MicroConf community keeps pulling founders up.

    Episode Sponsor:

    You're about to close a massive deal, and then your customer's legal team asks what happens if you get hacked.

    That's the nightmare YSecurity solves. They're 40 security engineers who've worked at Apple, Uber, Microsoft, Robinhood, Brex, and more. You don't hire them, you rent them by the hour, no massive salary, no expensive consultants. Just real experts helping you get SOC 2, ISO, and more.

    Set a monthly cap, know exactly what you're spending, and close the deal.

    Head to ysecurity.io/startups to book your free strategy call. Your first 8 hours are completely free.

    Topics we cover:
    • (2:14) – MicroConf 2026 attendee caliber and mix
    • (5:07) – Rebuilding MicroConf post-COVID
    • (8:51) – Jason Cohen on breaking growth ceilings
    • (12:48) – Amanda Natividad on Zero-Click Marketing
    • (19:30) – Excursions, arcades, and the hallway track
    • (22:01) – Rob's six ways to implement AI in SaaS
    • (27:27) – Gia Laudi on Jobs To Be Done as your GTM moat
    • (29:00) – Craig Hewitt's "AI Doomer" talk
    • (33:41) – MicroConf Europe in Iceland
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

  30. Episode 829 | AI is Bad at Product, Top 5 Startup Success Factors, and the Beastie Boys (A Rob Solo Adventure)

    31 min

    Can AI really handle product decisions for your SaaS? In this solo adventure, Rob Walling revisits the core four SaaS skills and breaks down what AI can and cannot do across Development, Sales, Marketing, and …

    Show notes

    Can AI really handle product decisions for your SaaS?

    In this solo adventure, Rob Walling revisits the core four SaaS skills and breaks down what AI can and cannot do across Development, Sales, Marketing, and Product. He also reframes Bill Gross's top five startup success factors for bootstrappers, walks through a hilariously bad UX decision by a local parking app, and closes with a surprisingly insightful Beastie Boys anecdote about shipping creative work into the world.

    Episode Sponsor:

    This episode is brought to you by Mercury

    Mercury is the banking solution I use across all of my businesses, from my personal single-member LLC to MicroConf and TinySeed.

    Traditional banking is broken, slow wires, clunky interfaces, tools that feel like they were built in 2005.

    Mercury is what banking should feel like in 2026. Everything just works.

    Whether it's daily bill pay or wiring large sums to the dozens of companies we invest in each year, Mercury handles it. Simple when I need simple, robust when I need approvals and controls.

    Over 300,000 entrepreneurs have made the switch. When founders ask me where to set up their account, I send them to mercury.com.

    Free to get started, no in-person visits, no minimum balance.

    Mercury is a fintech company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services provided through Choice Financial Group and Column N.A., Members FDIC.

    Topics we cover:
    • (5:48) – AI and the Core Four SaaS skills
    • (7:03) – Why AI falls short with sales and marketing
    • (8:45) – The editorial eye AI still lacks
    • (10:14) – Why AI is worst at product
    • (13:41) – Bill Gross's top five startup success factors
    • (19:48) – A parking app's terrible UX decisions
    • (24:24) – The Beastie Boys and lessons on shipping
    Links from the show:

    If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you!

    Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

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