A Podcast with Charlie Swenson – To Hell and Back
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- 23. Juli 2026
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This podcast series, “To Hell and Back,” is focused on the nature of hellish experiences in life, how people get into them, and to present and discuss tools for coping with hell and getting out. The various podcasts will move back and forth between different varieties of hell in life, and different tools for coping. The tools will be drawn from dialectical behavior therapy (DBT), from other treatments, and from other life experiences.
Lizenz: Charlie Swenson, MD
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World DBT Summit Coming – Episode 127
Charlie interviews Michaela Swales and Alec Miller, the co-hosts of the DBT World Summit that takes place October 28-30. Learn all that you need to know about this amazing first-ever global event. View video …
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Charlie interviews Michaela Swales and Alec Miller, the co-hosts of the DBT World Summit that takes place October 28-30. Learn all that you need to know about this amazing first-ever global event. View video version of this podcastSynchronized Swimming – Episode 126
In this podcast Charlie recalls a piece of biological research he did 57 years ago, at college. He pursued the question: how is it that the 2 billion cells of the human heart, each of which has on its own the …
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In this podcast Charlie recalls a piece of biological research he did 57 years ago, at college. He pursued the question: how is it that the 2 billion cells of the human heart, each of which has on its own the capacity to contract, beat in synchrony from birth to death every second or so? What are the biological structures that make that possible? And what does it teach us about cooperation, community, interdependency, and synchrony? View video version of this podcastDialectics, Democracy, Tyranny, Trump, and the American Way – Episode 125
In the wake of the recent killing by federal agents of two adults in Minneapolis, this podcast represents an attempt to deepen my perspective on these events, on Donald Trump, and on the forces in our country …
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In the wake of the recent killing by federal agents of two adults in Minneapolis, this podcast represents an attempt to deepen my perspective on these events, on Donald Trump, and on the forces in our country that have supported him. I close with some thoughts about how to counter him in the coming days. View video version of this podcastDoes DBT Work as a Model for Understanding and Addressing a Fascist Takeover? – Episode 124
DBT’s emphasis on behavioral specificity, validation, and dialectical thinking, while effective for therapy, must be sufficiently grounded in deep moral convictions and motivational forces if it is to be used …
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DBT’s emphasis on behavioral specificity, validation, and dialectical thinking, while effective for therapy, must be sufficiently grounded in deep moral convictions and motivational forces if it is to be used to address a fascist takeover of our society. View video version of this podcastBystanders Get Off the Sidelines Please – Episode 123
In this podcast Charlie reviews the six categories of people in the United States insofar as they are actors in the drama between democracy and authoritarianism, highlighting where it might be possible to …
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In this podcast Charlie reviews the six categories of people in the United States insofar as they are actors in the drama between democracy and authoritarianism, highlighting where it might be possible to change the momentum. He then discusses the role of “bystanders” and the psychology of bystanders, with a plea to convert bystanders to more active participants View video version of this podcastNuggets of Gold in Piles of Sand – Episode 122
In this podcast, Charlie reflects on a recent consultation as a window into the way in which memory is tethered to certain moments, as an example of Linehan’s metaphor for validation as finding a nugget of gold …
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In this podcast, Charlie reflects on a recent consultation as a window into the way in which memory is tethered to certain moments, as an example of Linehan’s metaphor for validation as finding a nugget of gold in a pile of sand, and as a segue into the integration of DBT and depth psychology in therapy. View video version of this podcastAmputation of Morality: What to Do About It? – Episode 121
The perspective within this podcast is that our current political process is seriously dysfunctional, having been taken over by decision-makers who seem disconnected from normal human morality. After noticing …
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The perspective within this podcast is that our current political process is seriously dysfunctional, having been taken over by decision-makers who seem disconnected from normal human morality. After noticing the resemblance of that process to what goes on in mob organizations and families, and in some families where incest occurs, we will identify the various roles in this ugly process and consider what can be done to improve things. View video version of this podcastGetting Out of Hell and Into Reality – Episode 120
This podcast focuses on the fact that we spend most of our lives living in the stories we tell ourselves about reality, but not in reality itself. Hear how DBT helps us to find our way back to reality, and how …
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This podcast focuses on the fact that we spend most of our lives living in the stories we tell ourselves about reality, but not in reality itself. Hear how DBT helps us to find our way back to reality, and how doing so increases the quality of our lives and the lives of those around us View video version of this podcastWhat the fuck? Dialectics and Improvisation in Therapy and Everyday Life – Episode 119
In this podcast, I explore what is meant by dialectics in general, dialectics in the practice of DBT, and especially what it takes to “do dialectics-in-action.” It’s way more common and profound than simply …
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In this podcast, I explore what is meant by dialectics in general, dialectics in the practice of DBT, and especially what it takes to “do dialectics-in-action.” It’s way more common and profound than simply applying dialectical strategies to certain situations. View video version of this podcastWise Mind, Polarization, Dialectics, and Stopping Fascism – Episode 118
In this podcast, the third in a series, I clarify the place of dialectics in DBT as an antidote to polarization. Using some case examples, I detail how one might use dialectics. Then I bring the same lessons …
Shownotes
In this podcast, the third in a series, I clarify the place of dialectics in DBT as an antidote to polarization. Using some case examples, I detail how one might use dialectics. Then I bring the same lessons into finding a way to deal with political polarization and what appears to be a fascist takeover. By the end of my search, I find a way. View video version of this podcastLearning to Say No Effectively to Fascism – Episode 117
To say NO to the forces and practices of fascism in the U.S., effectively enough to stop it, can be frightening. We will borrow from the DBT skills training model, explaining ways to acquire, strengthen, and …
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To say NO to the forces and practices of fascism in the U.S., effectively enough to stop it, can be frightening. We will borrow from the DBT skills training model, explaining ways to acquire, strengthen, and generalize the skill of saying NO in hopes that each of us can find our voice and make a difference. View video version of this podcastWhen Hell is an Attack on Democracy – Episode 116
In this podcast, Charlie draws from DBT in search of ways to understand the current assault on democracy in the United States, and to become more effective at taking care of oneself and acting more effectively …
Shownotes
In this podcast, Charlie draws from DBT in search of ways to understand the current assault on democracy in the United States, and to become more effective at taking care of oneself and acting more effectively. View video version of this podcastAdapting DBT Skills When Working with Autistic Individuals – Episode 115
In this episode, the fourth in a series on autism and DBT, Charlie is again joined by Amara Brooke and Rachel Kraus, two DBT therapists who are autistic and who have subspecialties in working with autistic …
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In this episode, the fourth in a series on autism and DBT, Charlie is again joined by Amara Brooke and Rachel Kraus, two DBT therapists who are autistic and who have subspecialties in working with autistic clients. Our focus here is entirely on the application and adaptation of DBT skills in the work with autistic individuals. Which skills work well as they are? Which skills require adaptation in order to work well with this population? Which skills can actually make things worse if you aren’t mindful of autistic features? Please rate, review, and write to me with comments and questions. View video version of this podcastChallenging, Changing Course, Reframing. Irreverence in Therapy and Life – Episode 114
In this episode, Charlie explains, and gives lots of examples of, being irreverent in therapy. What is the essence? What is the point? Why is it important to do? Why is it hard to do? What are the forms …
Shownotes
In this episode, Charlie explains, and gives lots of examples of, being irreverent in therapy. What is the essence? What is the point? Why is it important to do? Why is it hard to do? What are the forms irreverence can take? What are some tips for becoming irreverent? View video version of this podcastTop Ten Tips for Adapting DBT to Autistic Clients – Episode 113
Charlie moderates a discussion between Amara Brook and Rachel Kraus, both of whom are DBT-informed therapists with subspecialties treating autistic and ADHD individuals, as they come of with ten things to …
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Charlie moderates a discussion between Amara Brook and Rachel Kraus, both of whom are DBT-informed therapists with subspecialties treating autistic and ADHD individuals, as they come of with ten things to consider when adapting DBT to autism.In the next episode after this one, the same guests will specifically address how to modify DBT skills in working with autistic clients. View video version of this podcast
Do we use DBT to target autism? No – Episode 112
Charlie talks further with Amara Brook about autism, neurodiversity, and DBT: how can DBT be adapted, not to target autism itself, but to help autistic folks succeed at their own life-worth-living goals; how …
Shownotes
Charlie talks further with Amara Brook about autism, neurodiversity, and DBT: how can DBT be adapted, not to target autism itself, but to help autistic folks succeed at their own life-worth-living goals; how can we apply DBT’s bio-social theory in understanding and treating autistic individuals; and what are the barriers for autistic individuals in becoming DBT therapists? View video version of this podcastAutism, Neurodiversity and DBT – Episode 111
It seems that the world is paying more and more attention to autism in particular and neurodiversity in general. Beginning with this episode, Charlie talks with Amara Brooke, Ph.D., about autism …
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It seems that the world is paying more and more attention to autism in particular and neurodiversity in general.Beginning with this episode, Charlie talks with Amara Brooke, Ph.D., about autism, neurodiversity, and ways of adapting DBT to help an autistic individual reach their life-worth living goals. Tune in for this three-episode special conversation, which will eventually lead to ten tips for adapting DBT therapy with autistic people, and then on to what is meant by the Universal Design for Learning. View video version of this podcast
Wise Mind – Episode 110
Charlie provides an in-depth discussion of WISE MIND as used in DBT. What is it, why is it so valuable, what are perspectives on it, what are its features, how do you access it and use it? He then discusses a …
Shownotes
Charlie provides an in-depth discussion of WISE MIND as used in DBT. What is it, why is it so valuable, what are perspectives on it, what are its features, how do you access it and use it? He then discusses a painful example from his own life when he needed wise mind but failed to access it. View video version of this podcast“As Bad A Year As It Was, It Was As Good As It Could Have Been” – Episode 109
In a manner that is absolutely true to these words from her DBT and life mentor, Seth Axelrod, Andrea Gold has completed her one year of prescribed treatment for breast cancer, with the best results one can …
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In a manner that is absolutely true to these words from her DBT and life mentor, Seth Axelrod, Andrea Gold has completed her one year of prescribed treatment for breast cancer, with the best results one can hope for. Tune in to this episode to hear Andrea celebrate the completion of the year and reflect upon how she managed the suffering (a lot) and created fun and connection through it all (a lot). She brings an infectious and intelligent enthusiasm, an emotional and affiliative personality, and a bad-ass exposure and DBT lifestyle, to rather grim cancer-related events: diagnosis, staging, mastectomy, radiation, chemotherapy, and survivorship. Listen, connect, reflect…learn from her. View video version of this podcast View GalleryGuaranteed Success, By Design – Episode 108
> In part 2 of the conversation with world class trainer Cem Eren, join Charlie and Nicole and enter the Lion’s Den, a practice environment thoughtfully constructed to support our training journey from the …
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> In part 2 of the conversation with world class trainer Cem Eren, join Charlie and Nicole and enter the Lion’s Den, a practice environment thoughtfully constructed to support our training journey from the moment we step through the door until the moment we step out of it. As we tour the space, we hear how unconditional acceptance underlies Cem’s strategy for facilitating positive change, and how his intuitive application of dialectics translates to clients that consistently hit huge goals and make extraordinary transformations. View video version of this podcastSkillful Mind Training, Embodied – Episode 107
“In this episode, Nicole and Charlie tap into the wisdom that Cem Eren has gained from two decades of training elite NBA athletes, boxers, bodybuilders, beauty contestants, and ordinary humans of all ages. In …
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“In this episode, Nicole and Charlie tap into the wisdom that Cem Eren has gained from two decades of training elite NBA athletes, boxers, bodybuilders, beauty contestants, and ordinary humans of all ages. In examples that extend to therapy and coaching, Cem shares how he meets his clients every single day with freshness, compassion, dignity, and nonjudgmental presence, helping them connect with their strengths while building toward their goals. View video version of this podcastIdentity Grammar – Episode 106
What shapes the syntax of Self? How does context inform our inner lexicons? Are we more than the sum of all our actions? In this episode Charlie and Nic explore the ways we find meaning through expressing …
Shownotes
What shapes the syntax of Self? How does context inform our inner lexicons? Are we more than the sum of all our actions?
In this episode Charlie and Nic explore the ways we find meaning through expressing identity, how we hold space for inner contradictions, and why self definition is a paradox, ripe for dialectical intervention. View video version of this podcastSkillful Grieving, Making Meaning from Suffering, and a Dinosaur – Episode 105
In this second of our two-episode conversation with Natalia Garcia about her grieving process over the years since the death of her two-year-old son, we focus in on her altered relationship to time, rituals …
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In this second of our two-episode conversation with Natalia Garcia about her grieving process over the years since the death of her two-year-old son, we focus in on her altered relationship to time, rituals, and anniversaries; her remarkable use of DBT skills and dialectics to navigate the grieving process; the ways that she has made meaning out of her suffering; and a dinosaur, a gift from a fellow griever. View video version of this podcast GalleryWho IS that Woman?! – Episode 104
Since Nicole joined Charlie as co-host, several long-time listeners have asked Charlie, Who IS that woman?! It’s actually a great question and the answer is far from simple. In this podcast, Charlie and Nicole …
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Since Nicole joined Charlie as co-host, several long-time listeners have asked Charlie, Who IS that woman?! It’s actually a great question and the answer is far from simple. In this podcast, Charlie and Nicole explore their own self-narratives and expand into a larger conversation about how we all see ourselves, how we define ourselves, how we represent ourselves, how we are seen by others, and how that affects us. View video version of this podcastIn Her Own Words – Natalia Garcia on Coping with Loss and Trauma with Opposite Action and an Approach Lifestyle – Episode 103
In 2018, Natalia Garcia spoke with me over three podcast episodes about how she was dealing with the catastrophic and traumatic death of her two year old son eight months earlier. He died in the middle of the …
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In 2018, Natalia Garcia spoke with me over three podcast episodes about how she was dealing with the catastrophic and traumatic death of her two year old son eight months earlier. He died in the middle of the night for unexplained reasons. In three podcasts she spoke at length of her life, of the death itself, and then the road to recovery. In this week’s podcast, we reprise selected excerpts from those podcasts, capturing her words and her wisdom that grew out of this terrible loss. She inspires.Long Grieving, Complicated Joy, and Flowers That Grow Around a Hole in the Heart – Episode 102
In June of 2018, eight months following the death of her two-year-old son to the Sudden Unexplained Death in Childhood (SUDC), Natalia Garcia joined this podcast for three episodes to describe the catastrophic …
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In June of 2018, eight months following the death of her two-year-old son to the Sudden Unexplained Death in Childhood (SUDC), Natalia Garcia joined this podcast for three episodes to describe the catastrophic loss and the ensuing grief process marked by her courage and skill in facing her vulnerabilities. Now, five years since the loss, she returns to the podcast to talk about the longer arc of the process of grieving her son and things that have happened since then. As before, this is a moving and inspiring story of courage that deals with a panoply of issues faced in any longer-term grief process. View video version of this podcast5 Years, 100 Episodes, 7 Lessons for Surviving Hell – Episode 101
In this episode, Charlie reflects on 100 episodes spent exploring human suffering. He synthesizes wisdom from interviews including coping with natural disaster, loss of a child, suicide, and cancer, arriving at …
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In this episode, Charlie reflects on 100 episodes spent exploring human suffering. He synthesizes wisdom from interviews including coping with natural disaster, loss of a child, suicide, and cancer, arriving at seven overarching guidelines for survival. View video version of this podcastThe Long Reach of Loss – Suicide Outside the Immediate Family – Episode 100
In the final episode of our 4 part Series on coping with Suicide in the family, we hear from Teddy’s fiancé Mariya. Mariya’s developed a personal friendship with Ross and shares about that relationship and her …
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In the final episode of our 4 part Series on coping with Suicide in the family, we hear from Teddy’s fiancé Mariya. Mariya’s developed a personal friendship with Ross and shares about that relationship and her experience grieving his suicide.She also speaks about what it was like for her as someone outside the immediate family after Ross’ suicide: what it was like to be an outsider witnessing a family grapple with unspeakable loss, and how it felt to be a supportive partner to Teddy amidst her own grief.
The interview provides a window into the breadth of relationships impacted by suicide and gives perspective into the complexity of managing grief within and outside of a family system. View video version of this podcast
A Brother and a Best Friend Lost to Suicide (Part 3) – Episode 99
In the 3rd of our 4 Part Series on coping with suicide in the family, we speak with Beth’s son, and Ross’ brother, Teddy. Teddy shares his perspective on growing up as an older sibling to a brother who …
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In the 3rd of our 4 Part Series on coping with suicide in the family, we speak with Beth’s son, and Ross’ brother, Teddy. Teddy shares his perspective on growing up as an older sibling to a brother who struggled with painful emotions throughout his lifetime, on the close friendship they developed as they got older, and his inexhaustible capacity to access compassion and warmth.Teddy talks about being the person to find Ross after he took his life, navigating the mind-numbing administrative tasks that were required of him whilst being overwhelmed with emotion, and his instinct to surround himself with friends from the beginning to help him cope with a loss so great that, at times, it still doesn’t feel real. View video version of this podcast
Skillful Coping with Cancer (Part 3): Friendship is Good Medicine – Episode 98
In this episode, the third of four on how Andrea has coped with Cancer throughout 2022, her best friend Amy joins the conversation and they talk about what has happened in their friendship as a result of …
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In this episode, the third of four on how Andrea has coped with Cancer throughout 2022, her best friend Amy joins the conversation and they talk about what has happened in their friendship as a result of Cancer. How they have dealt with Cancer has enriched their friendship and their friendship has been key in helping Andrea to reduce her suffering and preserve her love of life. Totally sweet and inspiring! Check out the first two in the series, podcasts #87 and #93, where you get the detailed story of how Andrea has used DBT skills, dialectics, and mindfulness to navigate the myriad challenges that Cancer brings.
View video version of this podcast
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