The Swim Brief
- Episodes
- 472
- Released
- weekly
- Latest episode
- Nov 9, 2026
About the podcast
A swimming podcast featuring natural conversations about the sport. Chris DeSantis brings the poolside conversation to the podcast form.
Episodes 472
You Don’t Have to Write the Workout — Stephanie Juncker
Send us Fan MailYou don’t have to write the workout to be a hell of a coach.Louisville associate head coach Stephanie Juncker joins Chris to discuss how coaches make an impact through relationships, trust, and …
Show notes
You don’t have to write the workout to be a hell of a coach.
Louisville associate head coach Stephanie Juncker joins Chris to discuss how coaches make an impact through relationships, trust, and what they bring to the pool deck every day.
Stephanie shares why she has stayed at Louisville, how she has learned to pick her battles, and why a successful coaching career doesn’t have to mean becoming a head coach. They also explore the barriers women face in the profession, how informal networks shape opportunities, and what coaches can do within their own circles to help things change.
For young assistants looking for more autonomy, Stephanie’s advice is direct: coach your ass off in the role you have.
How Hard Are You Really Looking? — Bex Freebairn
Send us Fan MailWhat does it take to keep good coaches in swimming—and how hard are we really looking for the people we say we want to hire?UCLA associate head coach Bex Freebairn joins Chris to discuss the …
Show notes
What does it take to keep good coaches in swimming—and how hard are we really looking for the people we say we want to hire?
UCLA associate head coach Bex Freebairn joins Chris to discuss the everyday choices that shape coaching culture. From paying coaches enough to build sustainable careers to actively seeking out women for opportunities, Bex challenges the idea that our individual influence is too small to matter.
We also explore her journey from rural New Zealand to American college swimming, how she earned trust and responsibility as a young assistant, and why doing everything yourself eventually becomes a limitation. Plus: disagreeing with your head coach, finding the confidence to ask for help, and loving a sport without needing it to lead anywhere.
The Guests Are on Fire — Ricki Clausen
Send us Fan MailAre we debating how much salt to put in the soup while the guests are on fire?Ricki Clausen returns to The Swim Brief for a bonus episode about what’s holding Scandinavian swimming back. His …
Show notes
Are we debating how much salt to put in the soup while the guests are on fire?
Ricki Clausen returns to The Swim Brief for a bonus episode about what’s holding Scandinavian swimming back. His argument: coaches are better educated than ever, but the swimmers they develop run into school demands, cultural pressure, and financial barriers that better coaching alone cannot fix.
We discuss why the transition to high school drives swimmers out, whether Denmark’s four-year school pathway actually helps athletes, and what it means to celebrate world-class performers without supporting the years it takes to become one. We also disagree about pottery classes, question what Americans think they know about Scandinavian sport, and explore how local businesses could help athletes build a sustainable future.
A candid, occasionally cranky conversation about the problems we ask coaches to solve—and who else needs to take responsibility.
The Workout Isn't Why They Keep Coming Back - Cal Brown
Send us Fan MailCal Brown’s posts about swim training have occasionally gotten under my skin. So I invited him onto The Swim Brief to explore the experiences behind his message—and where we actually disagree.We …
Show notes
Cal Brown’s posts about swim training have occasionally gotten under my skin. So I invited him onto The Swim Brief to explore the experiences behind his message—and where we actually disagree.
We talk about training volume, recovery days that aren’t really recovery, and what strength coaches hear from athletes that swim coaches might miss. Cal explains how he and his brother approach athletic development at Aqua Strength Performance, from mobility and jumping to leaving something in the tank.
But the heart of this conversation is why athletes keep showing up: having somewhere they can be themselves, feel understood, and talk honestly about what they’re going through. Along the way, I confront how much my own training resembles the approach I sometimes find myself criticizing.
Find Cal on Instagram: @calbrownfit.
Who Gets to Coach Differently? - Ted Lasso, Part Two
Send us Fan MailJuliet Suess returns for the second half of our Ted Lasso conversation, exploring who gets the freedom to coach differently—and who still has to prove they belong.We dig into Alice Chilton’s …
Show notes
Juliet Suess returns for the second half of our Ted Lasso conversation, exploring who gets the freedom to coach differently—and who still has to prove they belong.
We dig into Alice Chilton’s development, disagree over Ted’s handling of her suspension, and consider what her promotion reveals about opportunity in coaching. Ted’s decision to step back opens a broader conversation about head coaches, assistants, and whether flexibility is something everyone deserves or a privilege reserved for the person in charge.
We also discuss competing without surrendering your life outside sport as well as recapping our favorite moments from the season and series.
Spoilers throughout for Ted Lasso season four.
You Can't Fix Confidence At Championships: Jack Brown
Send us Fan MailYou can’t wait until championships to teach swimmers how to handle championships.Wisconsin head coach Dr. Jack Brown joins Chris DeSantis to discuss why mental skills deserve the same deliberate …
Show notes
You can’t wait until championships to teach swimmers how to handle championships.
Wisconsin head coach Dr. Jack Brown joins Chris DeSantis to discuss why mental skills deserve the same deliberate practice as physical ones. Drawing on his own struggles as an elite swimmer, Jack explains why “just focus” often fails, how coaches accidentally amplify performance anxiety, and when goals stop helping athletes and start getting in their way.
They also explore Jack’s transition into head coaching, a disagreement over the development of elite female swimmers, and what it takes to build a coaching culture where commitment to winning can coexist with commitment to family.
Jack’s book, The Six Questions, is available on Amazon.
Milo Cavic Wouldn't Like His Younger Self
Send us Fan MailMilo Cavic looks back at his younger self and sees an athlete he wouldn’t necessarily enjoy coaching: self-centered, fiercely invested in success, and determined to learn things the hard way.The …
Show notes
Milo Cavic looks back at his younger self and sees an athlete he wouldn’t necessarily enjoy coaching: self-centered, fiercely invested in success, and determined to learn things the hard way.
The Olympic medalist joins Chris to discuss how he understands that athlete differently today, what he needed from Dave Salo and Mike Bottom, and why believing in your training matters. He explains why his own late-career coaching change makes him sympathetic to athletes who choose to leave successful environments.
They also discuss the balance between strong training partners and individual attention, why practice times can become an emotional trap, and the tension between team coaches and outside specialists. Milo shares how he approaches that relationship through Swim with Milo—and Chris offers his perspective on how coaches value their work.
The Coaching Culture That Pushes Parents Out: Tracy Slusser
Send us Fan MailTracy Slusser has coached three NCAA championship teams. She has also experienced a coaching culture that made having children feel incompatible with doing the job at the highest level.We talk …
Show notes
Tracy Slusser has coached three NCAA championship teams. She has also experienced a coaching culture that made having children feel incompatible with doing the job at the highest level.
We talk about the expectations she absorbed early in her career, what happened when a fellow coach brought her child onto the deck at Nationals, and the changes Tracy wants to see—from emergency deck passes to better coverage when coaches take leave.
Today, Tracy works with coaches on leadership, confidence, and the skills needed to build a career they can sustain. We close on a question that connects her past work to what she does now: when coaches want to perform at the highest level, who helps them get better?
Don't Finish The Athlete
Send us Fan MailWhat is a developmental coach actually trying to finish?Longhorn Aquatics head coach Mike Laitala joins Chris DeSantis to discuss why producing fast young swimmers is not the same as preparing …
Show notes
What is a developmental coach actually trying to finish?
Longhorn Aquatics head coach Mike Laitala joins Chris DeSantis to discuss why producing fast young swimmers is not the same as preparing athletes for long-term success. They explore the risks of early specialization, the difference between developing strength and simply “lifting,” and why athletes can advance beyond their own developmental awareness.
Mike also explains how he prepares swimmers for college, another coach, and eventually the ability to direct their own careers. The goal isn’t to exhaust every tool available—it’s to build the foundation athletes will need for whatever comes next.
Wisdom Isn’t Taught. It’s Revealed
Send us Fan MailJack Roach has spent a lifetime learning from coaches—and helping coaches and athletes learn from one another.In this conversation, Jack reflects on his time leading USA Swimming’s National …
Show notes
Jack Roach has spent a lifetime learning from coaches—and helping coaches and athletes learn from one another.
In this conversation, Jack reflects on his time leading USA Swimming’s National Junior Team, where he helped create developmental experiences that connected young swimmers with senior athletes and brought coaches into a broader web of relationships. But his philosophy extends well beyond any particular program: coaches shouldn’t simply provide answers. Their job is to ask questions, deepen awareness and help reveal the wisdom already developing within the athlete.
We discuss purpose, autonomy, the difference between being unable and unwilling, admitting weakness as a coach, and why genuinely caring about someone sometimes requires walking directly into difficult conversations. Jack also shares lessons from Eddie Reese and his longtime mentor, Jon Urbanchek—including one question that has stayed with him: How much are you willing to care?
Building Swimmers Who Want To Be There: Jonathan Kaplan
Send us Fan MailWhat makes swimmers want to keep showing up—not because an attendance policy requires it, but because they genuinely want to be there?Jonathan Kaplan, head coach and director of SwimRVA, joins …
Show notes
What makes swimmers want to keep showing up—not because an attendance policy requires it, but because they genuinely want to be there?
Jonathan Kaplan, head coach and director of SwimRVA, joins Chris to discuss a collaborative approach to coaching built around athlete ownership. Jonathan explains why he has never used an attendance policy, how coaches can teach swimmers to manage the psychological demands of practice, and what happens when an athlete’s entire identity becomes tied to results.
They also explore confidence without false modesty, the damage created by praising outcomes while ignoring the process, and why much of championship-meet coaching becomes an attempt to undo lessons athletes learned when they were younger.
Jonathan then shares how SwimRVA was designed around the needs of its community—removing barriers while creating space for everyone from seasonal participants to nationally competitive swimmers—and why good leadership requires enough confidence to question your own ideas.
The result is not a rejection of performance. It is a different path toward it: build better people, give swimmers meaningful ownership, and create a program they don’t want to leave.
Building Culture in College Swimming’s Transactional Era
Send us Fan MailWhat does it take to build a championship-level program without allowing college swimming to become purely transactional?Stanford men’s swimming head coach Dan Schemmel joins Chris DeSantis to …
Show notes
What does it take to build a championship-level program without allowing college swimming to become purely transactional?
Stanford men’s swimming head coach Dan Schemmel joins Chris DeSantis to discuss his unlikely path from Hawaii to one of the most prestigious jobs in the sport—and the moment he finally felt that he belonged there. They explore how Stanford is navigating NIL, the transfer era, and the growing pressure to treat the athlete-coach relationship as an exchange of immediate benefits.
Dan also explains why recruiting athletes who genuinely love swimming matters, how a strong team culture can sustain people when their individual motivation fades, and why the sport needs to better recognize age-group and club coaches. The conversation closes with a look at leadership, the difference between “learners” and “knowers,” and whether faster performances are necessarily producing better swimmers.
Building Women's Sports Differently: Ted Lasso Season 4
Send us Fan MailTed Lasso returns with a new challenge: building a women’s team inside a sporting structure created for men.Chris DeSantis and Juliet Suess discuss what the opening episodes of season four …
Show notes
Ted Lasso returns with a new challenge: building a women’s team inside a sporting structure created for men.
Chris DeSantis and Juliet Suess discuss what the opening episodes of season four reveal about coaching, leadership and the systems surrounding women’s sports. They explore Coach Chilton’s technical strengths and relational blind spots, Rebecca’s failure to consider a woman for the head coaching position, the limitations of copying and pasting from the men’s game, and how Emma Hayes has turned a deeper understanding of female athletes into a competitive advantage.
They also examine the power of teams to bring different people together—and why sports need more leaders like Keeley, who refuse to diminish themselves to fit an inherited model.
Contains spoilers for the first four episodes of Ted Lasso season four.
Why Swimmers Aren’t Eating Enough | Alicia Glass
Send us Fan MailSwimmers spend hours in the pool, yet many still aren’t eating enough to support the work they’re doing.Alicia Glass, Sport Dietitian for USA Swimming, joins to explain why swimmers need to …
Show notes
Swimmers spend hours in the pool, yet many still aren’t eating enough to support the work they’re doing.
Alicia Glass, Sport Dietitian for USA Swimming, joins to explain why swimmers need to think more like endurance athletes—and what happens when training volume and fueling fall out of alignment. We discuss early-morning practices without breakfast, why sugar and sports drinks can be valuable performance tools, and the practical barriers that keep exhausted athletes from eating consistently.
The conversation also explores why effective nutrition advice must account for the individual, how restrictive ideas about “healthy” eating can leave athletes less adaptable, and what coaches should look for when bringing nutrition professionals into their programs.
Finally, Alicia offers a nuanced approach to one of swimming’s most difficult subjects: body composition.
To Save Swimming, Start With the Coaches | Doug Cornish
Send us Fan MailSwimming has spent decades asking coaches to become more professional. But has the profession done enough to support them in return?Doug Cornish is a former swim coach, financial planner, and …
Show notes
Swimming has spent decades asking coaches to become more professional. But has the profession done enough to support them in return?
Doug Cornish is a former swim coach, financial planner, and the creator of the 2025 Swim Coaches Compensation Survey. His findings expose how precarious coaching has become: 38% of respondents reported working without a current contract, while 80% had no cost-of-living adjustment built into their agreements.
Doug and I discuss why coaches continue accepting these conditions, how poor financial stewardship limits what clubs can provide, and why coach retention is foundational to athlete development and the future of the sport. We also lay out five practical changes that could begin moving the profession forward—from credible compensation data and honest job ratings to board education, stronger financial structures, and contract templates.
This isn’t just a conversation about what’s wrong. It’s about what swimming can actually do next—because if we want to save the sport, we have to start with the coaches.
Doug's e-mail: [email protected]
Website: swimpler.com
ISCA Email 1: https://mailchi.mp/swimisca/coach-retention-the-future-of-swimming-depends-on-it?e=70a9f8d406
ISCA Email 2: https://mailchi.mp/swimisca/can-great-coaches-afford-to-remain-great
The Making of a Head Coach | Margo Geer
Send us Fan MailMargo Geer’s path to becoming the head coach at the University of Alabama was anything but conventional. When she took over the program at 28, plenty of people questioned whether she was …
Show notes
Margo Geer’s path to becoming the head coach at the University of Alabama was anything but conventional. When she took over the program at 28, plenty of people questioned whether she was ready.
Six years later, Margo joins me to discuss what prepared her for the opportunity, how her experience as an elite athlete shaped her leadership, and why she was able to deal with the criticism surrounding her hiring.
We also talk about protecting the health and performance of coaches, the value of letting athletes experience different environments, and why college swimming may need to reconsider its 365-days-a-year mentality.
Margo also shares the coaches who shaped her, what she has learned through six years in charge, and how she continues to balance curiosity, ambition, relationships, and life away from the pool.
Reflecting on 50 Years of Coaching | Don Wagner
Send us Fan MailDon Wagner spent more than fifty years coaching swimmers at every level of the sport—from developing young athletes to coaching Olympic champion Janet Evans during the most dominant stretch of …
Show notes
Don Wagner spent more than fifty years coaching swimmers at every level of the sport—from developing young athletes to coaching Olympic champion Janet Evans during the most dominant stretch of her career.
In this conversation, Don reflects on the moments that defined his coaching journey, how training philosophy has changed over five decades, what he believes today's coaches get right (and wrong), and the lessons that mattered most after a lifetime on deck.
We discuss:
• Coaching Janet Evans during her world-record years
• Why today's swimmers may need more rest—not more work
• The evolution of coach-athlete relationships
• Building a coaching philosophy over fifty years
• The future of swimming and what Don hopes changes
• Small lessons from legendary coaches that stayed with him foreverWhether you're a swim coach, athlete, or simply interested in leadership and high performance, this conversation is packed with practical wisdom.
How Do Great Programs Stay Great? | Todd DeSorbo
Send us Fan MailTodd DeSorbo has built one of the most dominant programs in college swimming history—but he says there was never a master plan.In this conversation we explore what it actually takes to sustain …
Show notes
Todd DeSorbo has built one of the most dominant programs in college swimming history—but he says there was never a master plan.
In this conversation we explore what it actually takes to sustain excellence year after year, why coaching elite athletes is more about what you do with the data than long term planning. Listen for how he thinks about recruiting, athlete development, emotional control, and building a culture that keeps producing world-class performances.
Todd also shares why he believes plateaus are often a sign that an athlete is about to break through, how he coaches Olympic champions differently (and not differently), and what surprised him most about leading a dynasty.
Topics include:
- Building a championship program without a fixed blueprint
- Why planning matters—but flexibility matters more
- Coaching world-record holders
- Why female athletes continue improving at Virginia
- Recruiting beyond times
- Managing emotion as a coach
- Creating a culture where athletes compete with each other rather than against each other
Leadership, Responsibility, and Shame in The Odyssey
Send us Fan MailWhat can The Odyssey teach us about leadership when every available choice carries consequences?Chris is joined by Juliet Seuss for a different kind of episode: a conversation about Christopher …
Show notes
What can The Odyssey teach us about leadership when every available choice carries consequences?
Chris is joined by Juliet Seuss for a different kind of episode: a conversation about Christopher Nolan’s The Odyssey and the questions it raises about responsibility, power, guilt, and shame. They examine whether Odysseus accepts responsibility for the people who follow him, how Penelope exercises power within an unjust system, and what Sinon’s story reveals about the shame society places on marginalized people.
Along the way, they explore one of leadership’s hardest realities: sometimes there is no good decision—only the least-bad one. What matters is not whether a leader can prevent every bad outcome, but how they respond to circumstances they cannot fully control.
This conversation contains major spoilers for The Odyssey.
We Protect Athletes. Who Protects Coaches? | Sophie Parr
Send us Fan MailFor years, conversations about athlete welfare have rightly transformed the way we think about coaching. But there's another side of the equation that receives far less attention:Who …
Show notes
For years, conversations about athlete welfare have rightly transformed the way we think about coaching. But there's another side of the equation that receives far less attention:
Who protects coaches?
This week I'm joined by coach Sophia Parr (@swim.coach.sophie) for one of the most vulnerable conversations we've ever had on The Swim Brief.
Sophie shares the story of being removed from a high school coaching position after months of conflict, isolation, and feeling unsupported by leadership. Rather than focusing on a single moment, we explore the culture that can push good coaches to their breaking point—and why so many talented coaches quietly leave the profession.
Together we discuss:
• The emotional toll of coaching under constant scrutiny
• Parent dynamics and organizational support
• Why female coaches often face a different standard than men
• The unintended consequences of well-intentioned safeguarding systems
• How coaches can establish healthy boundaries without losing compassion
• What schools, clubs, and parents can do to create healthier coaching environmentsThis isn't a conversation about avoiding accountability. It's about recognizing that healthy coaching environments require healthy support systems for everyone involved.
Whether you're a coach, parent, athletic director, or athlete, I hope this episode encourages you to think differently about the people who dedicate themselves to developing others.
If you enjoy conversations like this and would like to support The Swim Brief, you can do so at ChrisDCoach.com.
Want to tell your story to Sophie? Click below
https://storiesfromthedeck.base44.app/
Follow Sophie:
Instagram: @swim.coach.sophieFollow Chris:
Instagram: @chrisd_coach
Website: ChrisDCoach.comThe Parent Pressure Trap: Why Giving In Makes It Worse
Send us Fan MailWhy do parents keep intervening in coaching decisions—and why does giving in usually make the problem worse?In this solo brief, I describe the fear underneath parent pressure: the belief that …
Show notes
Why do parents keep intervening in coaching decisions—and why does giving in usually make the problem worse?
In this solo brief, I describe the fear underneath parent pressure: the belief that failing to secure every possible opportunity means failing their child. I explore how coaches unintentionally reinforce that anxiety, why concessions invite more intervention, and how proactive communication can prevent conflict before it begins.
The episode offers a practical framework for defining the roles of coach, parent, and athlete—allowing parents to support their child meaningfully without feeling they need to control coaching decisions.
The Most Important Thing a Coach Can Say After Failure | Dave Salo
Send us Fan MailDave Salo has coached at every level of the sport—from NCAA championships to Olympic medals—but this conversation isn't about workouts or sets.Instead, we explore the decisions that define …
Show notes
Dave Salo has coached at every level of the sport—from NCAA championships to Olympic medals—but this conversation isn't about workouts or sets.
Instead, we explore the decisions that define great coaching.
We discuss why process matters more than outcomes, how a single sentence can change the way an athlete experiences failure, the transition from assistant coach to head coach, what it means to lead people instead of simply managing performance, and the lessons Dave has learned from both success and adversity throughout his career.
Whether you coach swimming, another sport, or simply lead people, this episode is a reminder that the impact of coaching extends far beyond results.
In this episode we discuss:
- Why athletes remember what coaches say long after races are over
- The language that changes how athletes process failure
- The difference between being an assistant coach and leading a program
- How coaching philosophy evolves over decades
- Navigating criticism, setbacks, and career transitions
- What separates great coaching from great instruction
If you're interested in becoming a better coach—not just producing better performances—this conversation is for you.
More episodes, resources, and coaching:
https://www.chrisdcoach.comAbout The Swim Brief
The Swim Brief explores the thinking behind great coaching through conversations with world-class coaches, sport scientists, and leaders in swimming and beyond. Each episode is designed to help coaches improve the quality of their thinking so they can improve the quality of their coaching.
Debrief: Jeana Kempe
Send us Fan MailThe head coach of Swimming and Diving at the University of Illinois Jeana Kempe joins to talk influences and the path of her coaching career.
Debrief: David Marsh
Send us Fan MailDavid Marsh tells all about what his retirement actually looks like, and what he had planned if he was National Team Director. Debrief: David Marsh Chris DeSantis Download
Debrief: Tracy Menzel
Send us Fan MailTracy Menzel joins to talk GAIN, Diversity and why she’s back coaching in her hometown. Debrief: Tracy Menzel Chris DeSantis Download
Bonus Pod: A Day With Greg Meehan
Send us Fan MailRecapping the day I spent following around USA Swimming National Team Director Greg Meehan at last week’s Indy Pro Series event. Bonus Pod: A Day with Greg Meehan Chris DeSantis
Debrief: Dave Durden
Send us Fan MailDave Durden joins to discuss how he approaches his unconventional start at Cal and his approaches to recruiting and hiring. Debrief: Dave Durden Chris DeSantis
Debrief: Megan Devito
Send us Fan MailMegan Devito, a high school swim coach and performance mindset coach, joins to talk shop on the value of coaching. Debrief: Megan Devito
Debrief: Kevin Ring, USA Swimming CEO
Send us Fan MailThe CEO of USA Swimming joins to share what he’s learned in his nine months on the job and what he thinks is possible for the future. Debrief: Kevin Ring
Debrief: Cara Stawicki
Send us Fan MailFormer National Team and World Champion rower Cara Stawicki joins to talk shop and even turns the tables on me. Links for Cara:Website: https://carastawicki.com/Instagram …
Show notes
Former National Team and World Champion rower Cara Stawicki joins to talk shop and even turns the tables on me.
Links for Cara:
Website: https://carastawicki.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/carastawicki/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cara-stawicki-6059196/
Book a Discovery Call: https://calendly.com/carastawicki/discovery?month=2026-04
Debrief: Cara Stawicki
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