Think Like A Game Designer
- Episodes
- 125
- Released
- every two weeks
- Latest episode
- Nov 5, 2026
About the podcast
In Think Like a Game Designer, award-winning designer and Stone Blade Entertainment CEO Justin Gary speaks with world-class game designers and creative experts from various industries. Each episode deconstructs the creative process, offering insights into the art of game design and the broader cultural, technological, and business influences shaping a myriad of creative mediums. Join us for actionable advice and unique perspectives that will enrich your understanding of what it means to be creative in and out of the gaming world.
Episodes 125
Eric Hautemont — The Pixar Model of Publishing, the Secrets of Ticket to Ride, and the Future of Game Design (#114)
About Eric HautemontEric Hautemont is a legendary tech pioneer and tabletop publishing titan whose career sits at the direct intersection of software, graphics, and play. In the late 1980s, Eric co-founded …
Show notes
About Eric Hautemont
Eric Hautemont is a legendary tech pioneer and tabletop publishing titan whose career sits at the direct intersection of software, graphics, and play. In the late 1980s, Eric co-founded RayDream, a 3D graphics trailblazer that competed with Pixar at the dawn of ray tracing, before building it into a successful public company. In 2002, he co-founded Days of Wonder, completely transforming the tabletop industry by publishing global megahits like Ticket to Ride, Memoir ‘44, Small World, and Shadows over Camelot. Under his leadership, Days of Wonder pioneered the physical/digital hybrid model, setting a new industry standard for component quality, graphic design, and elegant gameplay before its acquisition by Asmodee in 2014. After a decade-long hiatus racing cars and angel investing, Eric has returned to the board game world with his latest venture, The Board Game Lab: a cutting-edge platform using AI to help game designers prototype, playtest, and refine their games faster than ever before. In this exclusive episode, Eric and I dive into the “Pixar model” of extreme curation, standing firm on product value, and how AI can act as a sandbox enabler for human design.
* You can find Eric on linkedin
Ah-ha! Justin’s Takeaways
* Product is Your Marketing: If you dedicate your energy to making a game that delights players, when it comes to marketing word-of-mouth can do the heavy lifting for you. Days of Wonder kept its marketing budget under 2% of total revenue because they knew that getting players to sit down in person and experience a great game creates an growing sales loop that no ad campaign can buy.
* The Pixar Model of Extreme Focus: Don’t flood the market with dozens of games a year hoping something sticks. Eric intentionally capped Days of Wonder to just one or two releases per year, forcing his team to curate relentlessly and say no to plenty of good ideas. By narrowing their focus, they poured every ounce of energy and care into making sure every single release was an absolute hit.
* Digital Is an Accelerator, Not a Competitor: Releasing high-quality digital apps on iPad and iPhone supercharged the physical sales of Days of Wonder! The benifits of digital versions of your games is that they teach players the rules fast and strip away the intimidation of learning something new. Since nothing can replace the physical magic of sitting around a table with friends, digital players eventually make the leap to buy the tabletop version.
Show Notes
“Remove parts until, until you can’t remove one.” (00:37:50)
Elegance in design comes from ruthless subtraction. Alan Moon spent two decades refining the mechanics behind Ticket to Ride until it was impossible to remove another leaving players with three simple action choices on a turn. As a game designer, you want to reach for elegance by stripping away every ounce of fluff until taking away one more rule will break the game.
“He’s like a world-class tennis man that doesn’t understand anything about acceleration and physics and so on from a math standpoint but he will always be there ahead of the ball, right?” (00:45:25)
When designing tactical masterpieces like Memoir ‘44, legendary designer Richard Borg doesn’t rely on complex mathematical spreadsheets or probability curves. He uses decades of experience playing thousands of games, all of which gave him an intuitive, organic feel for game flow. While math is certianly important, never underestimate the power of sheer playtesting reps to build an intuitive understanding of the player experience.
“So we win the Spiel des Jahres, and people are like, ‘How much are you going to drop the price?’ And our answer was zero. And they’re like, ‘Oh no, you’re not. We are big distributors. If you don’t drop your price, we’re not going to carry your product.’ And we said, ‘That’s fine.’” (00:47:55)
Eric shares a masterclass in pricing confidence and standing your ground. When Ticket to Ride won board gaming’s highest honor, traditional European distributors expected Days of Wonder to discount the game for mass retail. Coming from Silicon Valley, Eric knew that winning a major award proved the product was worth more, not less. When you build something truly extraordinary, don’t let middlemen dictate your margins, be confident in your product’s value and call their bluff.
“What’s going to be fun I think is the move 37 equivalent in game design... [AI] made a completely non-human move that surprised everybody... But the key there is what you said very early on, it’s taste, and AI has no taste, okay?” (01:14:25)
Machine intelligence is an incredible sandbox for running thousands of simulations or discovering wild, non-human mechanical twists, but an algorithm has zero built-in sense of fun or human connection. AI can throw raw possibilities at you all day long, but games are all about fun. To that extent, AI is no match for real human experience; it doesn’t have taste, and can’t curate those ideas into an experience that actually delights players.
P.S. If you are interested in working with me directly on your project, and learning from my mistakes rather than making your own, you can join my Think Like a Game Designer: Design Lab.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeAmabel Holland — Games as Political Art, Print-on-Demand Freedoms, and the Architecture of Systems (#113)
About Amabel HollandAmabel Holland is a prolific board game designer, developer, and publisher who, as co-founder of Hollandspiele, has been responsible for over a hundred board games and expansions. Much of …
Show notes
About Amabel Holland
Amabel Holland is a prolific board game designer, developer, and publisher who, as co-founder of Hollandspiele, has been responsible for over a hundred board games and expansions. Much of her deeply experimental work explores the potential of tabletop games as political art, how rule systems create cultural meaning, and the nature of games as living artifacts. In a profile by The New Yorker, she was cited as “widely considered one of today’s most innovative game designers” a title she remains humble about, but graciously accepts. A lifelong resident of the Detroit area, Amabel also creates documentaries exploring uncredited 20th-century designers in her free time. In this episode, we unpack how she built a self-publishing model where “even her flops are successful,” how game mechanics can model real-world systems of oppression, and how her evolving personal journey shifted her design focus from processing pain to crafting pure joy.
* Find Amabel on Youtube and Hollandspiele.com
Ah-ha! Justin’s Takeaways
* Even My Flops Are Successful: Build a business model that protects your creative freedom instead of trapping you under a mountain of inventory debt. By using print-on-demand for Hollandspiele, Amabel bypasses massive manufacturing and warehouse costs, so even her smallest, weirdest games turn a profit. Once you take away that financial risk, you give yourself total permission to take wild design swings on niche ideas traditional publishers wouldn’t touch with a ten-foot pole.
* Pain Makes Good Art, But Not Happy Artists: Channeling personal rage, grief, and societal injustice can yield profound, critically acclaimed masterpieces like This Guilty Land or Doubt Is Our Product. At the same time, marinating in heavy, painful subject matter for years takes a real mental toll on the creator. As Amabel worked through personal grief and found genuine daily happiness, her design work naturally transitioned toward joyful, fun experiences like Dragon Pizza. It’s a good reminder that while pain can fuel powerful art, your long-term happiness and mental health as a human being should always come first.
Show Notes
“Taking a move in a board game is not as intuitive as moving in a video game. It’s not as immersive as watching a film. And you can use that distance to try to have people think about what the game is representing, think about systems.” (00:09:50)
Unlike movies or video games, board games have a built-in superpower: physical distance. Because players have to manually flip through rulebooks and move pieces around, they aren't just zoning out in total immersion. You can use that deliberate friction to get players to pause, look under the hood, and actually think about the real-world systems you’re modeling.
“It’s a game presented as a, an alien artifact with a rule book written in a iconographic language that you have to translate, and I will not answer questions about whether you got it right or not.” (00:13:00)
Never underestimate how hungry players are for mystery. Amabel assumed City of Six Moons, which is a game with no text and an undeciphered alien rulebook, would only appeal to a tiny niche, but it became her biggest hit. When you take a risk and build something completely uncompromising, players may step up, form communities, and invest deeply to decode your vision.
“The margins for print on demand are not are not gonna let you have a full-time living in New York City generally, right?” (00:27:50)
High overhead can destroy creative freedom. By keeping her living costs low and operating out of an affordable spot like Detroit, Amabel built a real fortress around her lifestyle. When you strip away huge monthly bills, you never have to sell out your artistic vision or chase generic trends just to keep the lights on.
“For me, the worst thing would be a game where you do bad things, and the game wags its finger at you.” (00:51:25)
If your game forces a player to inhabit a villain or navigate heavy moral compromises, don’t lecture them through your mechanics. Shaming a player for executing the exact actions your game instructed them to take completely breaks player trust. Use abstract presentation and thoughtful mechanical distance so players can analyze the system objectively rather than feeling cheapened by preachy moralizing.
P.S. If you are interested in working with me directly on your project, and learning from my mistakes rather than making your own, you can join my Think Like a Game Designer: Design Lab.
You can find Think Like a Game Designer on these platforms:
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeElizabeth Hargrave — Distilling Wingspan Pocket, AI Ethics in Tabletop, and Building Equity for Designers (#112)
About Elizabeth HargraveElizabeth Hargrave is an award-winning board game designer best known for her runaway smash hit Wingspan, which won the Kennerspiel des Jahres in 2019 and has sold over two million …
Show notes
About Elizabeth Hargrave
Elizabeth Hargrave is an award-winning board game designer best known for her runaway smash hit Wingspan, which won the Kennerspiel des Jahres in 2019 and has sold over two million copies worldwide. Her diverse body of work, including Tussie-Mussie, Mariposas, The Fox Experiment, Undergrove, and Sanibel, explores rich corners of the natural world. Elizabeth recently released Wingspan Pocket, an absolute masterclass in distilling the core of Wingspan into an accessible, 30-minute, small-box game.
Beyond design, she is a co-founder of the Tabletop Game Designers Association (TTGDA), where she champions a games industry that embraces diverse voices and respects the labor, creativity, and intellectual property of designers. In this returning episode, Elizabeth and I break down the mechanics of condensing big games into small boxes, the mission behind the TTGDA, and an honest, nuanced debate about generative AI, human intent, and the ethics of art.
Connect with Elizabeth:
* bluesky: @elizhargrave
Ah-ha! Justin’s Takeaways
* Don’t Fall Asleep at the Wheel with AI: As machine tools get faster and more accurate, there’s a real danger of falling asleep at the wheel. Even if a model seems 95% or 99% reliable, never trust the machine over real human playtesting and lived player experience. Stay actively engaged in your process, verify your data, and remember that an algorithm can never replace the authentic human feedback loop.
* Elegance is Deep Decisions with Fewer Rules: True game design elegance comes from the depth of player decisions while drastically stripping back the rules and components. Wingspan Pocket is a perfect execution of this exact principle. By shrinking setup friction and focusing on pure decision-making, it proves you don’t need a massive box or tons of tokens to deliver a rich, weighty experience.
* Contract Details Matter (Even for Pros): Every single detail in a publisher contract matters, and you should never just blindly sign away your hard work. Look, I literally went to law school before I became a full-time game designer, and I still hire a lawyer to review my contracts! That’s why the work Elizabeth is doing with the TTGDA is so vital—giving emerging designers the tools and guidance they need to negotiate better deals.
Show Notes
“What would (Wingspan) look like to have a smaller version a more accessible version?” (00:05:40)
Mass market retail doesn’t always require dumbing down your initial design. Wingspan proved that mainstream audiences at Target were eager to embrace a heavier hobby game, and iterating a pocket-sized, highly accessible version opens up a massive second wave of players who want that same engine-building magic without the setup footprint or intimidation factor.
“But the actual ideas I don’t want to outsource. There’s a thing I’m trying to say.” (00:32:00)
Elizabeth hits the philosophical heart of why we design games. Even as technology evolves to automate statistics, spreadsheets, or playtest simulations, the fundamental creative spark, the specific human perspective you want to express about the world, cannot be outsourced to an algorithm. Games matter because they connect one person’s lived experience to another’s around the table.
“We put out a little position paper recently. When you talk about games, don’t just say who it’s published by, name the designer.” (00:54:40)
How the industry uses language dictates how it values creators. Shifting public habits from “published by X” to prominently crediting the individual designer isn’t just about ego; it treats game design with the exact same authorial respect we give to novelists, directors, and playwrights. Normalizing designer attribution builds long-term equity for every creator in the space.
“Because I feel like that’s there’s a whisper network. You hear about publishers that you don’t wanna work with, but if you’re a brand new designer and you don’t have the connections to hear those things, then you could end up working with people that you would rather not work with. I love being able to get that information to people who need it.” (00:56:30)
Industry protection shouldn’t depend on who you happen to know at the bar. By creating peer-driven support networks through the TTGDA and formalizing contract reviews, Elizabeth is turning insider knowledge into a public resource, ensuring new designers are armed with real data before signing away their IP.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeScott Morris — Making Memories Over Games, Navigating Personal Tragedy, and the Law of First Principles (#111)
About Scott MorrisScott Morris is the founder and CEO of Steel Wing Games, a boutique tabletop publisher focused on approachable, high-quality games, as well as the Global Brand Director for Lucky Duck Games …
Show notes
About Scott Morris
Scott Morris is the founder and CEO of Steel Wing Games, a boutique tabletop publisher focused on approachable, high-quality games, as well as the Global Brand Director for Lucky Duck Games under Goliath. A two-decade industry veteran, Scott previously served as Chief Sales and Marketing Officer at Lucky Duck and President of Passport Game Studios. His latest project, Rainbow Boulevard (designed by Adam Wyse), represents a decade-long journey of patience, personal resilience, and deep human connection. In this deeply moving episode, Scott shares the origin of Steel Wing Games, the harrowing personal tragedy that put his career on pause, and why game publishers aren’t just selling boxes, they’re building lifelong memories. Plus, we unpack the mechanics of eliminating player downtime, the shift from positions to principles in design debates, and what it really takes to launch a crowdfunding campaign today.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeBen Robbins — Revisiting Microscope, Designing Uncomfortable Games, and the Mechanics of Shared Stories (#110)
About BenBen Robbins is an acclaimed indie game designer best known for creating Microscope, In This World, Kingdom, and This Means War. Ben’s flagship design, Microscope, revolutionized GM-less storytelling …
Show notes
About Ben
Ben Robbins is an acclaimed indie game designer best known for creating Microscope, In This World, Kingdom, and This Means War. Ben’s flagship design, Microscope, revolutionized GM-less storytelling games by allowing players to collaboratively build vast, non-linear histories from the top down. In this returning appearance on the podcast, Ben and I dive deep into the psychological hurdles of revisiting a beloved, successful game to create Microscope v2. We explore the creative trick of fooling yourself to bypass pressure, the design spectrum between "wings vs. rails," and why opening your playtesting process up to the public saves time while yielding better results. Plus, we break down his experimental new game This Means War (which strips narrative control away from players) and engage in a passionate, honest debate on the role and impact of AI in the future of game design.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeRyan Scott Dancey — From Fake Mail Order to Legend of the Five Rings, the Power of Self-Belief, and the Future of AI (#109)
About Ryan S. DanceyRyan S. Dancey is an absolute titan of the gaming industry whose strategic vision has fundamentally shaped the modern tabletop and digital landscapes. Ryan co-created Legend of the Five …
Show notes
About Ryan S. Dancey
Ryan S. Dancey is an absolute titan of the gaming industry whose strategic vision has fundamentally shaped the modern tabletop and digital landscapes. Ryan co-created Legend of the Five Rings, published the 3rd Edition of Dungeons & Dragons, and spearheaded the creation of the revolutionary Open Gaming License (OGL) alongside an elite team at Wizards of the Coast—a move that forever altered the trajectory of role-playing games. His entrepreneurial journey spans from bootstrapping a "fake" mail-order company that accidentally became real, to orchestrating Wizards’ historic acquisition of TSR, to living in Reykjavik as CMO for CCP Games working on EVE Online, and serving a decade as Chief Operating Officer at AEG (publisher of the Spiel des Jahres winner Cascadia). Today, Ryan serves as President of Wide Pacific Horizon, a strategic consulting and content creation firm based in Everett, Washington. In this episode, we unpack the wild dawn of the '90s TCG boom, the mechanics of collectible economies, what it takes to pull off industry-defining business deals, and a deeply honest, transparent conversation about the reality of AI and the future of creative work.
Connect with Ryan:
* Website: widepacifichorizon.com
* LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/rsdancey
* BlueSky: @ryandancey.com
Ah-ha! Justin’s Takeaways
* The Fine Line Between Self-Belief and Arrogance: To be a successful entrepreneur, you have to possess an almost irrational confidence in your ability to figure things out. When you are young or broke, you take wild leaps because you truly believe you will survive the fall. Look, you don’t need to have every answer on day one, but having the intrinsic belief that you can pivot, adapt, and learn on the fly is what separates dreamers from builders.
* The Math and Mechanics of TCG Booms: Trading card games are powered by an irresistibly addictive loop of intermittent positive reinforcement and a healthy, long-term TCG ecosystem requires a delicate balance across three distinct groups: competitive players, casual collectors, and serious collectors/investors. If your game tilts too heavily toward speculation without a solid player base, the bubble will inevitably burst when investors run out of buyers.
* Practice with AI : We are living through a civilizational inflection point right now with machine learning. While the origins of these models come with thorny ethical questions, hiding your head in the sand will only leave you behind. These tools are democratizing production, allowing single creators to execute projects that used to require entire studios.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeGame Design Inspiration from Gen Con
I just got back from a whirlwind convention tour, speaking on multiple panels and showing off the early prototype of The Lord of the Rings™: Ascension™ at San Diego Comic-Con and Gen Con.You can see a full …
Show notes
I just got back from a whirlwind convention tour, speaking on multiple panels and showing off the early prototype of The Lord of the Rings™: Ascension™ at San Diego Comic-Con and Gen Con.
You can see a full playthrough of the game here. If you want to be one of the first to get the game, there’s less than one week left to back it on Gamefound! You can also read a deep dive into the mechanics in my design diary updates on Gamefound.
The Lord of the Rings™: Ascension™
We launched Ascension at Gen Con 16 years ago, and it was such a joy to come back, interact with fans, show off the game, and even hang out with Tom Bombadil!
But Gen Con is also one of the few times each year that I set aside to play new games and see what mechanics are out there. I wanted to write a quick review of the games I played and break down the interesting mechanics behind each one. These games aren’t necessarily new this year at Gen Con, but they were new to me, and some of them are quite innovative.
Spoiler alert: I saved a sleeper hit for last!
Wingspan Pocket
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/473508/wingspan-pocket
This new entry from Elizabeth Hargrave is my new go-to version of Wingspan. We talked about Wingspan on the last podcast episode I recorded with Elizabeth, and the game has been a massive hit, spawning numerous expansions and variants. But Wingspan Pocket does what few games have done well: it translates the emotional core of a medium-to-heavy game into a bite-sized version.
Wingspan Pocket uses the backs of cards to represent the food types and resources needed to play your birds, while tucked cards represent bonus points. A simple reserve-row and active-row system lets you acquire birds, resources, and eggs before building an active row of up to six birds, triggering the engine-building abilities that make the game what it is.
Each turn presents a meaningful but simple choice: draft two resources or birds, play a bird by paying its cost, or lay up to three eggs, followed by triggering any active bird powers. Once someone plays their sixth bird, the game ends at the conclusion of the round after all players have had an equal number of turns. You earn victory points for birds played, cards tucked beneath birds, and optional goal cards. There’s also a solo mode that I haven’t tried yet.
In the spirit of games like San Juan and Monopoly Deal, this is a hit for players looking for smaller, portable games that pack the strategic and emotional punch of their larger counterparts. It’s an excellent example of a designer who truly understands the core tension of her game and can present it in a much more compact package.
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Winterhaven Woods
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/339302/winterhaven-woods
This game has a beautiful minimalist forest theme and a simple draft-and-play mechanic similar to games like Sushi Go! and my own game Dungeon Draft. The theme and mechanics, however, are a bit of a mismatch for me.
You draft predators, herbivores, and trees, then place them in one of your three woodland spaces or out in the open meadow. The scoring system for these different animals and plants, however, felt a bit convoluted. For example, wolves can hunt animals in your meadow or in other players’ meadows. They must hunt in sets of three, they can only hunt unprotected animals, and there’s a timing system based on the moon phase shown on the cards that determines which player hunts first.
It’s a medium-weight scoring system layered on top of a lightweight theme and drafting mechanism. The game is decent, but I felt the scoring complexity didn’t earn its keep relative to the gameplay value. For a lightweight drafting game, I’d rather play Sushi Go!; for something heavier, 7 Wonders or Dungeon Draft pack more bang for the buck (no pun intended in a game about hunting).
Time Breaker
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/220234/time-breaker
This Looney Labs game fulfills the promise of being simple and cute while staying true to the company’s brand (congratulations to the Looneys on celebrating 30 years of publishing!).
You play as time cops hunting a time bandit on a randomized board made up of different time tiles, each of which allows you to “jump” to another tile. On your turn, you either move through one of these portals or play a card from your hand to move yourself or the time bandit. If you’re in the same space as the time bandit, you arrest him and he moves with you until another player arrests him or a card causes him to change locations.
My only complaint is that the board contains a lot of numbers, with each tile listing a “Travel From Time,” “Current Time,” and “Travel To Time,” making the paths a bit difficult to follow. Other than that, it’s a simple, cute, lightweight game.
Chrononauts is another time-themed game from Looney Labs that I highly recommend. You set up the board using the current timeline of historical events and receive a secret objective from an alternate future that requires changing history to match your timeline. You create paradoxes and play alternate-history cards until one player wins, or until too many paradoxes are created and everyone loses. If you haven’t played Chrononauts, you should.
Playthings
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/449930/playthings
I technically didn’t play this one myself, but I watched it being played, and it may have been the most innovative game I saw at Gen Con.
Players alternate taking on the role of the “Night Terror,” hiding the toys of the other players while everyone else closes their eyes. The unique mechanic is that players physically sense what happens as the Night Terror drops toys and bells onto the playmat, with different senses activated depending on the situation (for example, placing fingers underneath the mat as toys are dropped).
I have no idea whether the game is actually good, but I love seeing this kind of innovation and clever use of different senses to bring a game to life!
Tag Team
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/434906/tag-team
Many designers I know are trying to capture the mechanics of autobattlers (popular digital games such as Teamfight Tactics) in a tabletop format. Autobattlers are defined by a drafting phase followed by automatic combat resolution. Tag Team combines this idea with deckbuilding in a way that feels interesting and unique.
You pick two fighters to form your starting deck and determine the order of the cards. During combat, the cards flip in that predefined order against your opponent to resolve the round. Then you draft another card from your reserve and add it to your deck, but you can’t reorder it. Only by inserting the new card into a specific position can you shift the battle in your favor, taking into account what you just learned about your opponent’s deck.
The variety created by the “pick two” team-building system leads to interesting combinations, and the restrictions on deck order make every decision meaningful. I’ll need to play this game more to see how well it holds up over repeated plays, but after just one game it accomplished what every game should: it made me want to play again.
Nocturian
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/264925/nocturion
This was the sleeper hit for me. I had never heard of the game or the company behind it, but the layout and presentation immediately caught my eye.
Nocturian is a worker-placement game in which each round begins with a die roll. The available dice determine which action spaces can be selected that round, dramatically shifting the strategy from turn to turn. There’s also an innovative timing mechanism, with a tracker in the center of the board that advances by different amounts depending on which resources players choose to collect. As the tracker moves, it both replenishes depleted resources and changes which side of the board offers double resources that turn. Once the tracker completes a certain numb…
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeChad Ellis—Reality Gaming at Boda Borg, the Psychology of Negotiation, and Building Ego-Free Teams (#108)
About Chad EllisChad Ellis is a game enthusiast, strategist, and designer with an incredible range of experience across competitive tabletop, corporate leadership, and live reality gaming. Chad started his game …
Show notes
About Chad Ellis
Chad Ellis is a game enthusiast, strategist, and designer with an incredible range of experience across competitive tabletop, corporate leadership, and live reality gaming. Chad started his game publishing career partnering with Rob Dougherty under the Your Move Games brand, releasing innovative designs like Battleground Fantasy Warfare: a clever system that compressed large-scale miniature wargaming down into card sets. He holds an MBA from Harvard Business School and has held executive leadership positions across a wide range of organizations, from small startups to global giants like Siemens. Today, Chad is the founder and operator of Boda Borg Boston, a massive 30,000-square-foot reality gaming center featuring 24 distinct, physical “Quests” that challenge teams mentally and physically. His tabletop roots run deep, from playing on the Magic: The Gathering Pro Tour alongside the legendary Your Move Games testing group, to competitive chess, to running an epic D&D campaign for his kids. Chad also writes a political Substack titled Letters to my Uncles at happygeekchad.substack.com.
Ah-ha! Justin’s Takeaways
* Mutual Teacher/Student Relationships: The secret to building an elite playtesting group or an incredible business partnership is surrounding yourself with people where you are both a teacher and a student at the exact same time. Zero ego with a radical willingness to share and learn. When we were coming up in the Your Move Games house back in the day, nobody cared who had the higher Pro Tour finish, everyone listened, everyone pushed each other, and everyone grew together.
* Bad Clients Drive Out Good Clients: Bad clients will drive out good clients every single time if you let them. If you dilute your messaging trying to appeal to everyone, you end up captivating no one. Nobody gets to unilaterally decide who loves their game; it’s a designer’s job is to get out there, test with different groups, and discover who it actually resonates with.
* Test a Hypothesis, Don’t Just Test: Don’t just run blind playtests hoping to stumble on feedback, instead test a very specific hypothesis. You need to know exactly how every single test converts into actionable data, and more importantly, you have to possess the discipline to change when the the data proves you wrong.
* Frictionless Hook Points: Identify your game’s exact hook point, which is the precise moment where a player’s eyes light up and they go, “Oh wow, I get it”. Once you know where that moment lives, your entire design goal is to ruthlessly strip away every single ounce of friction between a person sitting down and experiencing that spark.
* Negotiation as a Co-op Game: Negotiation isn’t a zero-sum, competitive battle where one person wins and the other loses—it’s a co-op game. When you shift the conversation away from rigid positions and demands toward underlying interests, you stop fighting over slices and start expanding the size of the pie so everybody walks away winning.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeLuke Peterschmidt — Designing for Massive Fandoms, Eliminating Obstacles, and Exploiting Your Superpowers (#107)
About Luke PeterschmidtLuke Peterschmidt is a brilliant leader in the tabletop gaming industry who currently serves as the Head of Active Category Management at Asmodee. In this uniquely structured role, Luke …
Show notes
About Luke Peterschmidt
Luke Peterschmidt is a brilliant leader in the tabletop gaming industry who currently serves as the Head of Active Category Management at Asmodee. In this uniquely structured role, Luke has been managing the legendary The Lord of the Rings™ portfolio. Right now, I am incredibly lucky to be working directly with him as we partner up to launch The Lord of the Rings™: Ascension™ on Gamefound this July 14th, 2026. Luke and I have a long history of debating, discussing, and collaborating on projects across the industry, such as Bakugan. In this episode, we unpack the massive operational challenges of stewarding a world as foundational as Middle-earth, how to lead high-performing teams by getting completely out of their way, and how our creative roles must evolve as we scale up our careers. Plus, if you are catching this as it drops, Luke and I are hitting the stage together for a couple of panels at San Diego Comic-Con 2026!
Ah-ha! Justin’s Takeaways
* The Pressure of Caring a Lot: Nobody wants to be the designer who goes down in history as the one who botched a legendary world like The Lord of the Rings™. Every single designer who touches an intellectual property of this magnitude feels that exact same weight. Creating inside a universe you personally worship is an unbelievable mix of intense excitement and raw terror, and it leads to a lot of sleepless nights trying to make something great. At the same time, that fear is a feature, not a bug. You want to hunt for the specific creative projects that scare you just enough to force you out of your comfort zone and push you to build a masterpiece.
* Strategy is Saying No to Easy Money: True corporate or creative strategy has absolutely nothing to do with hitting a random quarterly budget number; it’s about having the discipline to turn down fast cash if it derails your ultimate vision. You have to define a strategic roadmap so crystal-clear that anyone on your team can look you in the eye, throw your own words back in your face, and tell you “no” and you have to completely agree with them. If a quick, short-term win pulls your focus away from your long-term destination, you have to let it go.
* Look for Strengths, Not Weaknesses: We waste way too much mental energy trying to patch up our minor flaws instead of ruthlessly exploiting our core superpowers. In game design, a product with a few visible imperfections but a mind-blowing, uniquely memorable hook is infinitely better than a perfectly polished, completely smooth pearl that has absolutely nothing special to say. The exact same rule applies to your life. Stop agonizing over your baseline weaknesses, and instead just build a killer team or find the right tools to handle them, and pour 100% of your focus into what makes you exceptional.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeBen Seck—Treating Your Career Like a Game, Shifting from Cards to Mobile, and Being a Boss Who Actually Backs Their Team (#107)
About Ben SeckBen Seck is an absolute titan of global game development and competitive play whose career path is an masterclass in strategic execution. Ben and I go back nearly 30 years to our early days on the …
Show notes
About Ben Seck
Ben Seck is an absolute titan of global game development and competitive play whose career path is an masterclass in strategic execution. Ben and I go back nearly 30 years to our early days on the Magic: The Gathering Pro Tour circuit, where he won a Grand Prix in Cape Town and scored a legendary Pro Tour top eight. Unlike most of our old-school peers, Ben is still actively crushing tournaments competitively today. We worked shoulder-to-shoulder in the R&D trenches at Upper Deck Entertainment during the wild-west era of the Versus System card game, both eventually shifting from pure game design into brand and product management . While I left to bootstrap Stone Blade, Ben strategically expanded his toolkit by jumping into the digital free-to-play explosion at Zynga. Since then, he has served as a senior leader and executive at some of the biggest entertainment powerhouses on earth (including Walt Disney, King, and Scopely) and is currently the Head of New Games at Gram Games in London. He has managed teams of hundreds and launched massive digital projects played by tens of millions of users globally. In this episode, we break down how to treat your creative career like a game you intend to win, the massive structural differences between tabletop and digital monetization, and what real leadership looks like when you’re managing massive teams across corporate environments.
If you are interested in working with me directly on your project, and learning from my mistakes rather than making your own, you can join my Think Like a Game Designer: Design Lab.
Ah-ha! Justin’s Takeaways
* How to "Game" Your Career: To game your career, you have to be completely at peace with the fact that games are a commercial art form where understanding how to sell your product is a vital piece of the puzzle. Don't let yourself get stuck in a comfortable routine . Push your boundaries by chasing high-growth markets, and whenever you hit a gap in your knowledge, relentlessly ask questions and learn on someone else's dime. Ben and I took completely different paths (him in corporate mobile and me bootstrapping an indie studio) but we both used calculated risks to minimize dead draws and massively increase our surface area for positive luck. Ultimately, the true metric of success isn't a fancy corporate title; it's whether you effortlessly get out of bed because you're genuinely excited about the work you get to do.
* The Lifespan and Cadence of Digital Complexity: A massive misconception in tabletop circles is that free-to-play mobile titles are inherently “simple” games. The reality is that digital titles don’t have less complexity; they just allocate their complexity points across a much longer timeline. Up front, your onboarding funnel is brutally tight, and if you don’t hook a casual player in the first two minutes, they delete the app forever. That said, once a user is plays regularly after a month or two, their tolerance for systemic depth sky-rockets. The secret is using universal themes and recognizable cultural tropes as an anchor so players get systems for free, allowing you to steadily layer in immense complexity over years without alienating your audience.
* Culture Over Hierarchy: Leading teams at scale, whether it’s an intimate indie squad or a studio of 170 people, means abandoning rigid, top-down corporate hierarchies. Especially in a hybrid work environment, a leader’s primary job is to intentionally construct a culture that keeps people from hiding in their silos. You want to explicitly carve out unstructured whiteboarding spaces on Zoom or over office lunches to protect that organic, big-brain creative spark which calendars can kill. Your team needs to see through your consistent, daily actions that you will fiercely advocate for their interests and back them up when decisions are made behind closed doors.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeIvan Van Norman — From Broke Graduate to Geek & Sundry, the Reality of Scaling an Indie Studio, and Embracing Content Innovation (#106)
About Ivan Van NormanIvan Van Norman is a true powerhouse of indie tabletop publishing and media innovation, bringing over 15 years of deep industry expertise to the table. Our paths cross all the way back to …
Show notes
About Ivan Van Norman
Ivan Van Norman is a true powerhouse of indie tabletop publishing and media innovation, bringing over 15 years of deep industry expertise to the table. Our paths cross all the way back to the very first year Gen Con introduced Entrepreneur’s Alley, where our tiny 10x10 booths were literally shoved into the back corner of the convention hall, facing a wall right next to the food court. While I was out there hawking the first print run of Ascension, Ivan was launching Hunters Entertainment. Since then, Ivan has carved out an incredible track record, serving as an executive producer and host at Geek & Sundry during the wild dawn of the web-streaming boom, helping lay the early foundational blocks for massive cultural phenomena like Critical Role, and co-owning Hunters Entertainment. He’s the publisher behind brilliant, boundary-pushing projects like the silent, text-messaging RPG Alice Is Missing. In this episode, we discuss the brutal realities of transitioning from a broke creator to a successful studio owner, how shifting mediums completely transform the mechanics of storytelling, and why your graveyard of discarded ideas is secretly your greatest design asset.
Ah-ha! Justin’s Takeaways
* Everybody Prepares You for Failure, Nobody Prepares You for Success: When you’re broke and just starting out, you are completely free to take massive risks because you have absolutely nothing to lose. However, the moment an indie project hits it big, the landscape completely flips. Ivan shares a wild reality check about running his first hit Kickstarter as a sole proprietor and suddenly getting hit with a massive personal tax bill he didn’t see coming. Success brings structural obligations to payroll, to investors, and to an audience that wants you to repeat your tricks.
* The Medium is the Mechanic: If you want your creative stories to break through the modern cultural noise, you have to design explicitly for the technology where your audience actually lives. Felicia Day and Geek & Sundry did it by leveraging the wild west of early YouTube and Twitch to unlock long-form TTRPG streaming. Alice Is Missing did it by turning a standard smartphone group text into an intensely emotional narrative engine. During our chat, Ivan’s insights actually inspired me start work on a brand-new design concept right at the table: how to build an ultra-short-form video RPG engineered entirely for Shorts, Reels, and Twitch.
* Less Money Equals More Radical Execution: Starting out broke right out of college gives you a massive, counterintuitive edge, because without a cash cushion, you are forced into a level of radical execution you just can't fake. Ivan and I launched right in a brutal recession, building display tables out of inventory boxes and dragging ammo cans down the hot streets of Indianapolis. That said, the real secret to surviving over the long haul as a serial entrepreneur is a beautiful touch of amnesia. We are naturally wired to avoid pain, and if you perfectly remembered the bone-deep exhaustion and near-failures of a launch, you'd never take a big risk again. You need that selective memory loss to trick yourself into thinking "this next launch will be smooth" just to find the sheer audacity to stand at the starting line again. It acts as a psychological shock absorber, wiping away the baggage of past failures so you can always approach a blank sheet of paper with total confidence.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeZvi Mowshowitz—From the Magic Pro Tour to Wall Street, the Logic of Bookmaking, and the Future of AI Ethics (#105)
About ZviMy history with Zvi Mowshowitz goes back over 20 years to our days as teammates on the Magic Pro Tour, where we won a Grand Prix and top-8ed a Pro Tour together. After his competitive gaming career and …
Show notes
About Zvi
My history with Zvi Mowshowitz goes back over 20 years to our days as teammates on the Magic Pro Tour, where we won a Grand Prix and top-8ed a Pro Tour together. After his competitive gaming career and a stint designing games at Wizards of the Coast and heading up a Cyberpunk TCG design team in Denver, Zvi took his unique systems-thinking mind into high-stakes finance. He managed risk as a professional bookmaker in sports betting, traded crypto for a hedge fund, and worked quantitative trading desks at firms like Jane Street. Today, he’s focused his incredible intellect on the world of artificial intelligence, writing five times a week at his blog, Don’t Worry About the Vase, tracking the breakneck evolution of large language models and the critical safety challenge of AI alignment. In this episode, we dive deep into the math of pattern recognition, our wild days on the Pro Tour, the high-stress realities of trading, and how to navigate the massive societal shifts coming with AI. Zvi delivers insights on rationality and adaptability that will resonate with anyone trying to think clearly in a rapidly changing world.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeNate Heiss — Removing Ego from Design, The Magic of Roguelikes, and Building Across Digital and Tabletop (#104)
About Nate HeissNate Heiss is a true game design chameleon. His 25-plus year career spans from competitive Magic: The Gathering play to designing iconic cards like Goblin Guide at Wizards of the Coast. He then …
Show notes
About Nate Heiss
Nate Heiss is a true game design chameleon. His 25-plus year career spans from competitive Magic: The Gathering play to designing iconic cards like Goblin Guide at Wizards of the Coast. He then took those skills into the AAA video game world, working as a designer and creative director at studios like LucasArts and PopCap on massive mobile hits like Plants vs. Zombies Heroes. Nate and I have been geeking out about game design since we met on the Magic Pro Tour in the late 90s, and now we’re finally teaming up on Gundam Assemble, an upcoming tabletop skirmish miniatures game. In this episode, we dive deep into the differences between physical and digital design, the ethics and realities of free-to-play business models, and how to capture the elusive magic of discovery in an internet age. Nate delivers profound insights that will resonate with anyone building games or trying to navigate a creative career.
Justin’s Ah-Ha! Moments
* The Shift From Player to Designer Mindset: Nate and I discuss a classic trap many pro players fall into when they start designing: trying to "beat" the players. It's easy to bring a competitive ego into R&D and focus on squashing dominant strategies to prove how smart you are. But great design isn't about winning; it's about crafting a fun experience. Once you soften that competitive edge, you realize your true goal is to empower players to make their own discoveries.
* The Economics of Free-to-Play Dictate Design: We tackle the controversial topic of free-to-play games. Nate points out that companies succeeding in this space aren't necessarily making "better" games; they are mastering live service and content costs. If a studio can "turn the crank" and produce engaging content at a fraction of the cost, they gain a massive competitive advantage. It shifts the design problem from just making an great game (which is table stakes) to efficiently delivering ongoing value over time.
* Roguelikes are the Modern Gold Rush: I've always wanted to recreate the feeling of opening an early Magic pack—when nobody knew the optimal strategies and everything felt like an untamed frontier. Nate brilliantly identifies that roguelikes are where this feeling lives today. By taking a core loop and exploding it into a massive, randomized possibility space on every run, roguelikes force players to adapt and experiment, capturing that communal feeling of discovery over and over again.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeMark Rosewater — Designing for Emotion, Embracing Complexity, and 28 Years of Iteration (#103)
About MarkMark Rosewater is the Head Designer for Magic: The Gathering and one of the most influential voices in modern game design. With decades of experience shaping one of the most successful and enduring …
Show notes
About Mark
Mark Rosewater is the Head Designer for Magic: The Gathering and one of the most influential voices in modern game design. With decades of experience shaping one of the most successful and enduring games in the world, Mark has led the design of countless sets and pioneered many of the systems that define Magic today. Known for his deep understanding of player psychology and his ability to translate complex ideas into elegant design, Mark has spent his career exploring what makes games resonate on an emotional level. In this episode, he shares hard-earned lessons about creativity, audience connection, and why great design starts with how you want players to feel.
* Check out Mood Swings, a new game by Mark Rosewater
* Magic: The Gathering Drive to Work Podcast
Justin’s Ah-Ha! Moments
Why You Should Fear Indifference More Than Criticism: Strong negative reactions mean people care about your game. Indifference means it didn’t land at all. The best games spark emotion, even when that emotion is mixed or uncomfortable.
The Real Goal of Game Design Is Emotional Impact: Mechanics are only a means to an end. What players remember is how the game made them feel: tension, excitement, surprise, or triumph. The most effective designs start with the emotional experience and use mechanics to deliver it.
Why Complexity Can Be a Strength When Used Correctly: Magic: The Gathering continues to grow as a game because of its depth and the space it offers for expansion. Yet the secret to a complex game is that it still needs enough clarity for new players to enter. When creating a game with complexity, the goal is to preserve what makes your game compelling while making it accessible.
Show Notes
“Good design is all about making wrong choices.” (00:11:17)
Becoming a great designer requires exploring, testing, and discovering what doesn’t work. Every wrong choice teaches you something. The faster you’re willing to be decisive and commit to your ideas, the faster you get to something that actually works. Don’t hesitate—commit and learn from it.
“The data is so essential.” (00:20:50)
Mark explains how much of Magic’s success comes from constantly listening to players and analyzing behavior. There’s no shortage of data (playtests, player feedback, sales trends, format popularity) but the challenge is knowing what to do with it. He says that data is all about finding patterns and understanding what’s actually driving player behavior. Players will tell you what they like, but not always why. Part of the designer’s job is to interpret those signals and turn them into better decisions about what to build next.
“The idea essentially is can we sell somebody a basic game that is expandable if they want it to be expandable, but not if they don’t.” (00:45:52)
Here Mark is talking specifically about the structure of his new game. The goal is to create a complete experience out of the box, while still allowing for expansion over time. That’s a difficult balance. If the base game feels incomplete, casual players drop off. If expansions feel unnecessary, engaged players lose interest.
“I’ve had 28 years of iterative loops.” (01:12:33)
Mark has been revisiting Mood Swings for nearly three decades, refining and rethinking it over time. While this is an extreme version of iteration, it highlights a broader truth, which is that some ideas take years to fully realize. Sometimes the idea for a game will evolve alongside your skills and perspective. The lesson is to hold onto ideas that matter, keep testing them, and recognize that the right version may only emerge much later.
“If you can make your audience see themselves in your game, you will be very successful.” (01:30:17)
Mark and I discuss how the way a game ties to a player’s identity drives replayability. Systems like colors in Magic or classes and races in Dungeons & Dragons give players a way to express who they are through play. That sense of self-expression creates a deeper connection, turning the game into a space where players can explore different versions of themselves in a safe and meaningful way.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeRoss Thompson—Real-World Marketing, Influencer Strategy, and Building Community That Lasts (#102)
Ross Thompson is a marketing strategist focused on helping tabletop games and consumer brands grow through real-world connection. A veteran of the industry with over 15 years of experience in community …
Show notes
Ross Thompson is a marketing strategist focused on helping tabletop games and consumer brands grow through real-world connection. A veteran of the industry with over 15 years of experience in community building, events, and marketing, he most recently served as Director of Marketing at Atomic Mass Games, where he worked on titles like Star Wars: Legion, Marvel Crisis Protocol, and Star Wars: Shatterpoint. He now serves as Media and Events Director on the board at GAMA, focusing on strengthening the industry through better events and stronger connections between creators, retailers, and players. In this episode, Ross shares practical strategies for building real-world communities, working with influencers more effectively, and finding the right retail partners to support long-term growth.
If you’ve ever had a game idea but didn’t know how to turn it into a real, playable design, my Design Labs program walks you through the entire process. With 60+ lessons, practical assignments, and a private Discord community, you’ll learn how to move from inspiration to prototype, playtesting, iteration, and publishing.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeDrew Corkill — Design Solo Game Systems, Speed, and Shipping at Scale (#101)
About DrewDrew Corkill is a UI/UX designer with nearly 15 years of experience and a deep background in graphic design, who has quietly become one of the most prolific creators in tabletop gaming. Alongside Gabe …
Show notes
About Drew
Drew Corkill is a UI/UX designer with nearly 15 years of experience and a deep background in graphic design, who has quietly become one of the most prolific creators in tabletop gaming. Alongside Gabe Barrett, Drew is the driving force behind the “Solo Game of the Month” initiative, he’s launched more crowdfunded games than almost anyone in the industry, building a system that prioritizes speed, iteration, and consistent output.
Drew first connected with me as a student in the Think Like a Game Designer Course, where his early work on Small Time Heroes evolved into a breakout success with multiple expansions and campaigns. In this episode, Drew shares how his background in UX shapes his approach to game design, what makes solo games uniquely powerful, and how community, structure, and relentless iteration can turn creative ambition into a sustainable career.
Justin’s Ah-Ha Moments:
* Threats, Timers, Treats: Drew had one of the clearest frameworks I’ve heard for solo game design. If you want a solo game to generate excitement, you need pressure (threats), urgency (timers), and reward (treats). Miss one, and the whole thing feels more like a puzzle than a game. This is a simple checklist, but it’s deceptively powerful.
* You Don’t Build Alone: What stood out to me in Drew’s story is how much of his success came from the environment around him. Community, feedback, and deadlines are force multipliers. Left on your own, it’s easy to stall, but put yourself in a room with people who are building, and everything speeds up. This is true whether it’s a course, a group, or just a few people you trust.
* Cut to the Experience: When you take something digital and try to make it physical, all the excess gets exposed. You can’t rely on automation or hidden math, instead you have to decide what actually matters. Drew’s approach is to strip things down until the fun is obvious. That’s a useful lens for any design. If something is slowing the player down without adding value, it’s probably not pulling its weight.
If you’ve ever had a game idea but didn’t know how to turn it into a real, playable design, my Design Labs program walks you through the entire process. With 60+ lessons, practical assignments, and a private Discord community, you’ll learn how to move from inspiration to prototype, playtesting, iteration, and publishing.
Show Notes:
“I was like, well, I’ll just make my own version of what I want.” (00:07:01)
This is one of those deceptively simple origin moments. Drew couldn’t find the experience he wanted, so instead of waiting, he built it. That impulse, where you’re moving from consumer to creator, is where a lot of design careers actually begin. If something feels missing in the games you’re playing, consider it a compass, and try to fill the gap.
“If it’s distracting from the fun […] then it’s a baby that has to be killed.” (00:27:30)
This is Drew being brutally honest about design discipline. It’s easy to fall in love with clever mechanics, complex systems, or ideas that felt great during development, but if they slow the game down or pull players out of the experience, they have to go. Prioritization is key, because not every good idea belongs in the final product. Remember, most of the time you should be removing anything that doesn’t serve the core experience, no matter how much time you’ve invested in it.
“To design a solo game is much easier than it is to design a multiplayer game.” (00:42:47)
Drew loves to design solo games. Late in the conversation, he gets tactical about why his “game a month” system works. Solo games reduce complexity, which makes them faster to design, test, and ship. Solo games are easier to iterate on, because until very late in the process, you are the only designer and playtester needed to refine the prototype.
You can find Think Like a Game Designer on these platforms:
* Spotify
* Youtube
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribe50 Episodes of Game Design Wisdom
Guests featured:* Keith Baker* Monty Cook* Raph Koster* Richard Garfield* John Zinser* Elizabeth Hargrave* Eric Lang00:03:06 — Keith BakerLesson: Creating a world that becomes a playable game.Baker explains how …
Show notes
Guests featured:
* Keith Baker
* Monty Cook
* Raph Koster
* Richard Garfield
* John Zinser
* Elizabeth Hargrave
* Eric Lang
00:03:06 — Keith Baker
Lesson: Creating a world that becomes a playable game.
Baker explains how he designed the Eberron setting and why fantasy worlds need recognizable hooks that players can quickly understand.
00:17:31 — Monty Cook
Lesson: How RPG worlds and systems come together in design.
Cook discusses the process of building role-playing games and the interplay between storytelling, mechanics, and player experience.
00:23:24 — Raph Koster
Lesson: Designing games through structured creative practice.
Koster explains his ideation process, how he takes notes and prototypes ideas, and why constraints and deliberate practice help designers develop new game concepts.
00:33:18 — Richard Garfield
Lesson: Spend your “complexity points” wisely.
Garfield talks about balancing innovation and accessibility, emphasizing that too much novelty can make games harder for players to understand.
00:40:33 — John Zinser
Lesson: A successful game needs a strong hook.
Zinser explains how publishers evaluate games and why clear differentiation is critical when pitching or launching a new title.
01:04:36 — Elizabeth Hargrave
Lesson: Passionate themes can unlock new audiences.
Hargrave discusses how Wingspan succeeded by pairing a unique theme with mechanics that reinforce that theme.
01:17:03 — Eric Lang
Lesson: Great games come from iteration and cutting what doesn’t serve the design.
Lang discusses engine design, playtesting, and how cohesion between theme and mechanics strengthens a game.
If you’ve ever had a game idea but didn’t know how to turn it into a real, playable design, my Design Labs program walks you through the entire process. With 60+ lessons, practical assignments, and a private Discord community, you’ll learn how to move from inspiration to prototype, playtesting, iteration, and publishing.
Learn More at JustinGaryDesigns.com
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeEric Lang — Designing for Payoff, Ritual Play, and Returning to Your Roots (#100)
About Eric LangEric Lang is one of the most influential designers in modern tabletop gaming, known for bold thematic systems and highly interactive play. Over his career, he has designed or co-designed titles …
Show notes
About Eric Lang
Eric Lang is one of the most influential designers in modern tabletop gaming, known for bold thematic systems and highly interactive play. Over his career, he has designed or co-designed titles including Blood Rage, Rising Sun, Ankh: Gods of Egypt, Chaos in the Old World, and numerous licensed and collectible card games. His work spans hobby and mass-market audiences alike, blending deep strategic frameworks with strong narrative identity. In this episode, Eric shares how he approaches conflict-driven design, why player psychology matters more than mechanics alone, and what it takes to build games that feel both competitive and emotionally resonant. If you’re interested in designing for tension, identity, and memorable table moments, this conversation offers a masterclass from one of the industry’s most distinctive voices.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeTheresa Duringer — UI as Game Design, Onboarding Without Friction, and the Ethics of AI (#99)
Theresa Duringer is the owner and CEO of Temple Gates Games, a San Francisco–based digital board game studio known for best-in-class adaptations of modern tabletop games. Her team has brought Ascension to VR …
Show notes
Theresa Duringer is the owner and CEO of Temple Gates Games, a San Francisco–based digital board game studio known for best-in-class adaptations of modern tabletop games. Her team has brought Ascension to VR and developed acclaimed digital versions of Dominion, Race for the Galaxy, Shards of Infinity, and more, with a relentless focus on speed, clarity, and intuitive UI. Theresa works closely with designers and publishers to translate complex tabletop systems into digital experiences that feel natural, responsive, and faithful to the original games, helping players around the world connect and play together online. In this episode, she shares insights on what makes a great digital adaptation, why performance and UX are inseparable from game design, and how to bridge the gap between physical and digital play without losing what makes tabletop special.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeJaimie Wolanski — Tough Truths, Retail Realities, and How Games Create Connection (#98)
About JaimieJaimie Wolanski has over 20 years of experience in the games industry, with a career spanning major brands and mass-market hits. She’s worked as a sales rep bringing games into stores like Target …
Show notes
About Jaimie
Jaimie Wolanski has over 20 years of experience in the games industry, with a career spanning major brands and mass-market hits. She’s worked as a sales rep bringing games into stores like Target and Barnes & Noble, and has helped launch titles like Shopkins, Catan, Ticket to Ride, Bananagrams, and Exploding Kittens. She even worked with Justin to bring You Gotta Be Kitten Me to market. In this episode, Jaimie shares what it takes to succeed in a crowded space, how to build teams you can trust, and why knowing when to let go of a project can be just as important as seeing one through. If you care about the business of games—especially the part that happens after the prototype—this conversation is packed with sharp insights and real-world experience.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeVlaada Chvátil — Designing for Joy, Building Great Games, and Letting Quality Do the Marketing (#97)
About VlaadaVlaada Chvátil is one of the most influential game designers of the modern era. As the creative force behind classics like Through the Ages, Codenames, and Galaxy Trucker, and a co-founder of Czech …
Show notes
About Vlaada
Vlaada Chvátil is one of the most influential game designers of the modern era. As the creative force behind classics like Through the Ages, Codenames, and Galaxy Trucker, and a co-founder of Czech Games Edition (CGE), he’s built a career defined by curiosity, craft, and an uncompromising commitment to making games he actually wants to play. Vlaada’s path—from programming and digital game development to shaping some of the most enduring tabletop designs of the last 20 years—has given him a rare perspective on iteration, collaboration, and long-term creative sustainability. In this episode, we explore how he chooses projects, why great development beats marketing every time, and how designing for joy has fueled both his games and his company.
Ah-Ha Moments
We Sell Games So We Can Make Games: Vlaada reframes the entire business of game design. The purpose of publishing is to fund the next act of creation, not to chase sales targets. This mindset frees designers to make bolder, more honest games, because success is measured by creative momentum, not quarterly performance.
The Best Marketing Is Ruthless Investment in Development: CGE spent its early years with no marketing team at all, because they didn’t need one. Vlaada’s long-term strategy is simple and difficult: invest heavily in development and let quality do the work. Great games create their own momentum. Word of mouth, sustained sales growth, and long tails are the natural result of excellence.
The Golden Rule of Collaborative Design: When collaborators disagree, Vlaada avoids persuasion entirely. Instead of fighting to prove one idea right and the other wrong, the goal is to find a third solution neither person originally proposed, but that both genuinely like. This reframes disagreement as a creative engine, not a conflict, and almost always leads to stronger, more resilient designs.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeCarly McGinnis — Startup Scrappiness, Trusting Your Team, and the Rhythm of Leadership (#96)
About CarlyCarly McGinnis is the driving force behind one of the fastest-growing tabletop companies in history. As CEO of Exploding Kittens, she’s helped lead the company to over 25 million games sold and …
Show notes
About Carly
Carly McGinnis is the driving force behind one of the fastest-growing tabletop companies in history. As CEO of Exploding Kittens, she’s helped lead the company to over 25 million games sold and dozens of successful launches, all while keeping the promises of the most-backed crowdfund ever. Carly’s path—from surviving the Hollywood talent-agency grind to building a global game business—has given her a rare blend of resilience, humor, and no-nonsense leadership. In this episode, we discuss how she scales teams, navigates creative chaos, and builds a culture that can actually deliver on big ideas.
Related episodes with Elan Lee, Creator of Exploding Kittens
Justin’s Ah-Ha Notes:
* Slow Down to Grow Faster: Carly reminds us that speed isn’t the same as progress. When you rush just to keep moving, you create confusion, rework, and stress that ultimately slow you down. The real skill is learning to pause long enough to think clearly, set the right priorities, and avoid doing things simply for the sake of doing them. When you give yourself and your team permission to slow down, you actually create the conditions to grow faster and make better decisions.
* Define “Good Enough” and Move Forward: One of Carly’s superpowers is knowing when to push and when to ship. Perfection can quietly kill momentum, especially inside a fast-scaling company. By clearly defining what “good enough” means for a project, she empowers her team to keep moving, learn in the real world, and avoid getting stuck polishing details that don’t matter. Progress comes from clarity and clarity starts with setting a bar everyone understands.
* Leadership Is Repetition: Carly makes this point beautifully: leadership isn’t about a single breakthrough moment, it’s about reinforcing the fundamentals again and again. Whether it’s reminding the team of the mission, encouraging fast feedback loops, or surfacing hard conversations, the job is to repeat what matters until it becomes part of the culture’s DNA. A great leader is patient, and presents enough to help their teams grow in the right direction.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeKyle Thiermann — Deadlines, Mentors, Curiosity, and the Craft of Connection (#95)
About KyleKyle Thiermann is a professional big-wave surfer, journalist, and creative director whose career bridges storytelling, advertising, and adventure. He’s written for Men’s Health, Surfer, and Outside …
Show notes
About Kyle
Kyle Thiermann is a professional big-wave surfer, journalist, and creative director whose career bridges storytelling, advertising, and adventure. He’s written for Men’s Health, Surfer, and Outside Magazine, and helped shape campaigns for brands like Patagonia, Yeti, and Mudwater, with his ads and viral spots reaching over 100 million people. Kyle is also the author of One Last Question Before You Go: Why You Should Interview Your Parents Now, a deeply personal exploration of family, curiosity, and conversation. In this episode, Justin and Kyle dive into the fear that drives creativity, the lessons of surfing six-story waves, and how to use curiosity and courage to build a more meaningful creative life.
Think Like A Game Designer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
Ah-ha! Justin’s Takeaways
Deadlines create gravity: Surrounding yourself with people you respect and setting clear deadlines are two of the most powerful tools for getting things done—it is the engine of creative work, which turn ambition into action and ensure you finish what you start.
Proximity is an accelerant: Kyle’s learned, both in the ocean and in his creative career, that the fastest way to improve is to surround yourself with people already doing the thing you’re learning. Mentorship and shared goals create a rhythm of steady progress that’s hard to find alone.
Better questions equal better understanding: We’re trained to have answers, but not to ask better questions and that’s where understanding truly lives. Whether you’re exploring a design challenge or rebuilding a relationship curiosity has the power to turn conversation into insight. Kyle’s book about interviewing his parents is a masterclass in curiosity.
Show Notes
“The power of deadlines and more specifically, the fear of disappointing people I respect has driven my career.” (00:04:55)
We start by talking about the writing group where Kyle and I met, guided by New York Times best-selling author Neil Strauss. Together we dig into how essential structure and accountability are for any creative project including the value of mentors, peers, and most of all, deadlines. If you’ve listened to this podcast before, you’ve heard me say it: deadlines are magic. They turn vague ambition into finished work.
“Find the people that are doing the thing and hang out with them as much as possible.” (00:15:58)
Kyle connects his life as a big-wave surfer to his creative process, showing that fear and mastery follow the same pattern. Whether you’re paddling into six-story waves or starting a new creative career, the fastest way to grow is to surround yourself with people already doing what you aspire to do. Mentorship, proximity, and shared accountability accelerate progress more than any course or tutorial ever could.
“Copywriting is much more like stand-up comedy, where you’re trying to take an idea and distill it down to its most essential form that’s going to get someone’s attention and connect them to this thing that you are selling.” (00:34:49)
Kyle compares copywriting to stand-up comedy and it’s a perfect analogy. Both rely on timing, clarity, and emotion. Every word has to earn its place. For designers, writers, and storytellers, the lesson is simple: your job isn’t to explain, it’s to distill. When you can make someone feel something in a single line, you’ve revealed its essence, making it easier for your audience to understand, and therefore, to buy.
“We’re taught to have the right answers, but never taught to have the right questions.” (00:51:56)
Kyle wrote a book about interviewing his partents. His book grew out of realizing that curiosity—especially toward the people closest to us—is a learned skill. We train for answers, but not for questions, and that leaves entire parts of our relationships unexplored. As Kyle discovered, interviewing is about transforming judgment into curiosity. Asking better questions of our parents, our collaborators, or ourselves is how we rediscover the people we thought we already knew.
* Kyle’s Upcoming Book: https://geni.us/onelastqbeforeyougo
* Kyle’s Website: https://www.kylethiermann.com/
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeTouko Tahkokallio — Curiosity, Physics, and the Power of Mental Playtesting (#94)
Touko Tahkokallio is one of the rare designers who has mastered both tabletop and digital worlds. Starting out as a theoretical physicist, Touko shifted careers to follow his passion for play. First by …
Show notes
Touko Tahkokallio is one of the rare designers who has mastered both tabletop and digital worlds. Starting out as a theoretical physicist, Touko shifted careers to follow his passion for play. First by designing acclaimed board games like Eclipse, then shaping some of the biggest mobile hits of all time at Supercell, including Hay Day, Boom Beach, and Brawl Stars. In 2022, he co-founded a mobile game studio Stellar Core which he is the chief creative officer.
In this episode, we explore the hidden value of juggling multiple projects, how to prototype without rules or components, and why a playful mindset is essential, especially when the work gets tough.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeJordan Weisman — From Battletech to Shadowrun: The Power of Curiosity and Collaboration (#93)
About this EpisodeThis episode is a little different from the usual Think Like a Game Designer conversation. Instead of a freeform discussion, I came prepared with a curated list of questions to guide the …
Show notes
About this Episode
This episode is a little different from the usual Think Like a Game Designer conversation. Instead of a freeform discussion, I came prepared with a curated list of questions to guide the conversation, giving us a structured look into Jordan’s creative process, his philosophies on innovation, and the lessons he’s learned over decades of building worlds. The result is a fast-paced, insight-packed episode that feels like sitting in on a masterclass in game design.
About Jordan Weisman
Jordan Weisman is a legendary figure in interactive entertainment, whose career spans tabletop games, video games, theme parks, and beyond. As the creator of Battletech, Shadowrun, and Crimson Skies, and the founder of iconic companies like FASA and WizKids, Jordan has shaped generations of players and creators alike. His work is defined by boundless curiosity, fearless experimentation, and a lifelong commitment to collaborative storytelling.
In this episode, Jordan and I explore what it means to think small, fail boldly, and keep learning no matter how much success you’ve had. We discuss how curiosity drives innovation, why emotional courage is more important than financial risk, and how respect—for yourself, your team, and your audience—is at the heart of great creative work. Whether you’re just starting your design journey or looking to rekindle your passion after decades in the industry, Jordan’s insights offer a masterclass in staying creative for life.
Think Like A Game Designer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
Justin’s Questions
What’s something that you’re passionate about outside of your career, and what do you love about it? (00:01:33)
* During the pandemic, he rediscovered model building and diorama crafting, a childhood hobby that brings him therapeutic joy.
* He enjoys it because it’s tangible, visual storytelling where you can actually see progress, a much different process than game design, which often feels abstract or slow.
What do you love about that kind of model building and creating? (00:04:05)
* It aligns with Jordan’s love of world-building and storytelling when creating small, detailed scenes that tell a story visually.
* It’s satisfying because each session produces visible progress, reinforcing creativity and immersion.
What is advice that you would give to someone that’s just starting out in your industry? (00:04:06)
* Think small. Beginners often aim for massive projects like the ones they admire.
* Start with something you can finish using your own limited resources.
* Completion and execution teach more than ideas ever will.
* Focus on learning through doing, not imagining.
Now let’s flip to the other side of the equation: what do you see as an important lesson that industry veterans need to learn? Or put another way, what advice do you think your older self might give to you? (00:06:30)
* Avoid hubris. Experience can blind you. Everything you know might be wrong.
* Listen to young minds. Youth brings creativity because it hasn’t learned what’s supposedly impossible.
* Over time, past failures make people too cautious; veterans must keep their beginner’s mindset.
* Innovation demands courage to look foolish publicly; fear of embarrassment kills creativity.
* Stay humble, keep experimenting, and reassess old assumptions regularly.
Are there any practices or rituals or ways that you try to keep yourself in that beginner’s mind? How can one get the advantages of experience and minimize the disadvantages? (00:08:09)
* You must be willing to “go face first into the mud.”
* As he said in the previous question, public embarrassment is the price of innovation.
* Surround yourself with young thinkers, question assumptions, and resist dismissing ideas based on past failures.
* Always check whether past lessons still apply, because markets and contexts change. Jordan gives an example of a failed company born from his overconfidence, where he didn’t re-research the market because he assumed he already knew it.
What do you consider the most important skills to cultivate for your profession, and how do you cultivate these skills? (00:15:13)
* Endless curiosity: Study adjacent fields like comics, fiction, tech—anything that feeds creative cross-pollination.
* Build a box: Instead of “thinking outside the box,” define constraints clearly to evaluate ideas. For example: He designed Mage Knight by creating a checklist of problems (ease of entry, low cost, retailer needs) and solving within that “box.”
* He values self-education: when he didn’t know toy manufacturing, he paid a small company to teach him the process.
So let’s get to the areas where the industry or you have been dead wrong. What common advice do you hear about your industry that is dead? (00:24:26)
* “Nothing is ever dead.” Genres, mechanics, and IPs always come back (vinyl, RPGs, etc.)
* When people say something’s over, it’s actually ready for reinvention.
* He used to believe in-person collaboration was essential, but remote work proved him wrong.
* He often misjudged products (like thinking Funko Pops would flop).
* Absorb wisdom but not edicts.
* Success and failure are cyclical, making timing and humility matter more than certainty.
What books, articles, or learning resources have had the biggest impact on you? And if there are any key takeaways that stuck with you that come to mind? (00:30:53)
* Mentions Reed Hastings’ book (Netflix culture) and Creativity, Inc. by Ed Catmull (Pixar). The value here is the small-team principles and leadership lessons, though he’s skeptical of the “find five geniuses” model.
* His biggest lessons came from mentors, not books: Mark Miller (creator of Traveller): taught him kindness and professionalism. His father, Mort Weissman: joined FASA, ran the business side, and kept it alive.
* He emphasizes mentorship, respect, and kindness as lasting business principles.
What is the right way to find a partner? (00:33:14)
* Finding a partner is like finding a life mate: talk about goals, work habits, expectations.
* Negotiate the “prenup” early, meaning you should decide how you’ll split if things go wrong.
* Avoid the naive approach he took (asking friends at the table).
What about systems, software, and tools that have had a big impact on your workflow?(00:38:18)
* Internal tool: his “box” process for evaluating ideas.
* Software: Slack (no internal email, all communication centralized), Google Docs (collaboration), ClickUp/Jira (task tracking).
* Avoid “Not Invented Here” syndrome: don’t build tools you can buy.
* Focus on your core innovation; outsource or use existing solutions for everything else.
* Reuse mechanics unless your innovation demands new ones.
* Let your team choose tools bottom-up instead of enforcing top-down.
What’s your favorite project, and what lessons did you learn from it? (00:45:46)
* His favorite is always the one he’s working on now, but emotionally, Shadowrun and Crimson Skies stand out. Shadowrun came from trying to differentiate from Cyberpunk and combining fantasy with cyberpunk via the Mayan calendar. Crimson Skies was born from personal burnout after his wife pushed him to rediscover his passion. It led to reinvention and eventually Microsoft’s acquisition of his company.
* His lesson here is that passion and reinvention are crucial; listen to loved ones and know when to move on from stale success.
You can find the previous episode with Jordan below:
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeJonathan Grant — Critics, Experiments, Secrets, and the Business of Play (#92)
About JonathanJonathan Grant is a creative director at Zynga, founder of Orbital Games, and co-host of We Thought It Would Be Easy with Jordan Weisman. His career spans startups, acquisitions, and AAA …
Show notes
About Jonathan
Jonathan Grant is a creative director at Zynga, founder of Orbital Games, and co-host of We Thought It Would Be Easy with Jordan Weisman. His career spans startups, acquisitions, and AAA environments, where he’s pitched ideas in Zynga boardrooms, built risky new projects, and collaborated with legends of the industry. Jonathan’s work is defined by his willingness to experiment, his honesty about failure, and his belief that great games hide secrets waiting to be discovered. In this episode, we dive into what it means to make the right bets, how to use criticism to grow, and why experimentation and mystery are essential tools in game design
Think Like A Game Designer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
Ah-ha! Justin’s Takeaways
* Your Critics Are Right About You: Jonathan challenges us to let go of ego by acknowledging that criticism often contains truth. Instead of fighting it, use it as fuel to grow. Accepting this mindset helps designers take risks, embrace feedback, and move forward without fear of failure.
* The Power of Experimentation: At Zynga, Jonathan saw firsthand how structured experimentation can refine ideas—sometimes running a dozen tests at once. The key lesson: experimentation validates and sharpens vision, but it should never replace it. Use data to guide improvement, not dictate creativity.
* The Purpose of Gameplay is to Hide Secrets: Jonathan believes the most memorable games invite players to discover hidden layers. Secrets create mystery, turning mechanics into worlds worth revisiting. As designers, we should craft experiences that reward curiosity, giving players reasons to return again and again.
Show Notes
"Pain isn’t bad. Damage is bad." (00:17:57)
This framing really resonated with me. Creative projects often hurt, the late nights, the tough feedback, the near-misses, but that’s not the same as damage. Damage is when you burn out, ruin relationships, or risk your financial stability. Learning to distinguish between the two is essential. Pain can be a teacher or a compass; damage is a warning sign.
"Your critics are right about you." (00:27:14)
It’s a hard truth, but Jonathan is right. The ego wants to believe that critics don’t understand us, yet their words often hold a kernel of truth. When I apply this mindset, I can let go of defensiveness and see criticism as fuel for growth. Its a reminder to use feedback to sharpen both my work and myself.
"The thing that Zynga was incredible at was experimentation… sometimes a dozen experiments at once." (00:50:37)
At Zynga, experiments weren’t random, instead they were structured, frequent, and scaled. As a designer, I take from this that experimentation should validate vision, not replace it. Numbers can guide us toward sharper solutions, but they can’t generate the spark that makes a game truly special.
"Philosophically, the purpose of gameplay is to hide secrets." (01:08:29)
I love this idea. Secrets are what keep players coming back: hidden interactions, unexpected depth, and little discoveries that reward curiosity. A great tip for RPG game masters is to place a secret in every location so players always have something to unravel, with each secret offering a way to draw them back on track. In my own designs, I’ve found that the best games aren’t the ones that reveal everything up front, but the ones that invite players into a world where there’s always more to discover. That sense of mystery is what makes play feel alive.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeElan Lee — Building Exploding Kittens, Marketing as Design, Retail Pitches, and Playing to Sell (#91)
About ElanElan Lee (@elanlee) is the co-creator and chief executive officer of Exploding Kittens, a leading gaming and entertainment company. Under his leadership, Exploding Kittens has expanded its portfolio …
Show notes
About Elan
Elan Lee (@elanlee) is the co-creator and chief executive officer of Exploding Kittens, a leading gaming and entertainment company. Under his leadership, Exploding Kittens has expanded its portfolio to nearly 30 different games with more than 60 million games sold in more than 50 countries since its founding in 2015.Before founding Exploding Kittens, Lee was the chief design officer at Xbox Entertainment Studios, where he led the Interactive Entertainment Portfolio. Prior to that, he was the founder and chief creative officer of Fourth Wall Studios and co-founder of 42 Entertainment. He began his career at Microsoft Games Studios as a lead designer on the original Xbox.Lee has won a Primetime Emmy for the series Dirty Work; Game Innovator of the Year for Exploding Kittens; a Peabody Award for the world’s first alternate reality game, The Beast; and an IndieCade Trailblazer Award for a distinguished career in interactive entertainment, among others.
In this episode, Elan and I discuss into how his company built their rigorous playtesting culture, why marketing is inseparable from product design, and how pitching to Target and Walmart is just another kind of game. Whether you’re trying to break into retail, sharpen your viral marketing instincts, or simply design games people can’t stop playing, this conversation will give you both insight and inspiration
Ah-ha! Justin’s Takeaways
* Execution is the Superpower: From manufacturing to social media strategy, Elan’s team treats execution as part of game design. Elan explains why 80% of his company are marketers, producers, and logistics experts, all aligned around making games irresistible to discover and play.
* Marketing is Product Design: At Exploding Kittens, marketers have veto power. A game might be hilarious to play in the room, but if it can’t be captured in a five-second social video, the game never makes it out of the room. Elan shares how his team tests hundreds of games at design retreats, then filters them through a marketing lens to ensure the product is not only fun but also instantly communicable and shareable.
* Play to Sell: When pitching to Target or Walmart, Elan doesn’t “sell” games—he plays them. He gets buyers into the experience, proving the fun directly. This approach yields extraordinary success rates, with most of Exploding Kittens’ pitched games picked up for retail. Elan reframes pitching as playing with new friends, making joy the ultimate sales tool.
Show Notes
"She said, ‘I just want you to take a moment and take a breath and realize you built this thing.’" 00:04:46
It’s easy as creators to focus on what’s broken or what needs fixing (I know I fall into this mindset myself) but sometimes the most powerful thing you can do is step back, practice gratitude, and recognize how far you’ve come. Elan’s wife reminded him of this during a board meeting, and it’s a lesson all of us can use to cultivate more joy in our creative journey.
"It doesn’t matter if it’s the best game in the world. If they don’t know how to sell it, it is not worth wasting our time on." 00:15:15
Sometimes as game designers, we feel like the job ends once the mechanics click. Marketing can seem like an afterthought, but the truth is that it’s part of product design. Elan bakes this into his process by giving his marketing team veto power at design retreats. It’s a powerful reminder: if you want your game to succeed, you must think not only about how it plays but also about how it will be discovered. For Elan, that means asking whether a game can be sold in five seconds on social media. He shares stories of projects he loved that never made it to market because his team couldn’t find a way to sell them. This strategy is tied directly to reaching the casual gameplay audience, which demands this very specific approach.
"All I do is I talk to my friends about how much fun they are about to have, and then I prove it." 00:32:25
Elan’s approach to pitching games is radically simple: instead of talking, play the game and let the experience do the work. Whether you’re pitching to Target or teaching your prototype at a convention, the best way to win people over is to let them feel the joy for themselves. Hearing this made me rethink my own approach, as I’ve often been guilty of trying to “sell” too much instead of simply playing.
“[Poetry for Neanderthals] is, in its purest form, a tool set to let you talk to other people in the room." 01:04:01Elan describes his games as tool sets that let players entertain each other, which is why games like Poetry for Neanderthals or Codenames can stay fun even after dozens of plays. My philosophy takes a different angle: I aim to design games that last a lifetime, so my team thinks deeply about what the 100th play will feel like, something Elan admits he never has to think about with his own games, designed for his casual gaming audience.
Whether your players stick around for ten plays or a hundred, the real secret is the same: Whether they’re crushing their opponents with clever plays or laughing together as they stumble through ridiculous challenges—great games create space for players to shine.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeJustin Gary — 5 Lessons From 15 Years (#90)
At Gen Con this year, we kicked off Ascension’s 15-year anniversary celebration. I had the chance to meet so many fans who have been part of this community for over a decade; the experience was both humbling …
Show notes
At Gen Con this year, we kicked off Ascension’s 15-year anniversary celebration. I had the chance to meet so many fans who have been part of this community for over a decade; the experience was both humbling and rewarding.
We just launched the Gamefound Campaign for the Ascension 15th Anniversary Collector’s Edition and I’ve been reflecting on the incredible journey that brought us here. What began as a casual prototype I created to play with friends between rounds of Magic tournaments has grown into a game that connects millions of players around the world.
Here are the five most important lessons I've learned, each has transformed Ascension from a prototype to a global phenomenon.
Lesson 1: Prototype and Iterate Fast
When I first started working on Ascension, I never expected it to become the success it is today. It was 2009, and I had just quit my job to start my own game company. The funny thing about starting a company is that until you’re making money and collaborating with others, the difference between “CEO/Game Designer” and “guy sitting on his couch” is mostly a matter of attitude.
At the time, I had spent over a hundred hours playing the deckbuilding game Dominion. This game pioneered the genre, offering the fun of deckbuilding without the hassle of collecting cards. As a Magic: The Gathering Pro, I loved that it delivered the joy of constructing a deck without buying packs or managing a collection. Eventually, however, the game became predictable. Because each setup of available cards was fixed from the start, I rarely needed to change my strategy. I also found that the game took too long to set up, impacting the ratio of fun to busy work in a way I thought could be improved.
The secret to creating Ascension was simple: remove the things from Dominion that get in the way of fun.
My first prototype was literally just a shuffled pile of Dominion cards, which instantly cut 20 minutes off setup time. Mind you, this prototype wasn’t good, but it gave me a quick sense of how the gameplay might feel, and I could see a spark of something great there. My next prototype was nothing more than sharpie scribbles on blank cards. Since my prototypes were quick and ugly, I had no problem throwing them out and making rapid changes. That freedom allowed Ascension to go from idea to store shelves in under 18 months.
The lesson: Your first prototype should be so ugly you're embarrassed to show it to anyone. That embarrassment is freedom—freedom to fail fast, change everything, and find the fun without falling in love with your first ideas.
Lesson 2: When in Doubt, Cut it out
Most new designers try to solve problems by adding things to their games. The correct answer is almost always to cut instead.
Ascension started by cutting Dominion’s purchase and play restrictions. This streamlined the game and gave players more choices each turn, but also required me to add a second resource [power] to keep tension high. This change was just the start, the biggest cut came much later in development.
Ascension’s signature innovation was the ever changing center row, which dramatically increased the variety in each game. At the same time, this mechanic also created the risk of a stalled board state, meaning that if players weren’t able to buy anything from the center, nothing would change and the game would drag on. My original solution was a “conveyor belt” mechanic, where, at the end of each turn, the rightmost card was banished and everything slid down. This guaranteed movement and created tension as cards neared the edge.
The problem was that players kept forgetting to slide the cards down. Every. Single. Game.
I tried everything: special cards that interacted with the conveyor belt, giant reminder text on the board, entire mechanics to make sliding feel essential. Nothing worked. Then one playtester asked the question that should have been obvious but I was blind to: "What if we just cut that rule?"
We shuffled up, played without it, and never looked back. The game was cleaner, faster, and more fun. Did the board stall occasionally? Yes, but we could mitigate that by subtly adjusting card costs and adding banish effects players could buy when needed. In this case, the conveyor belt cure was far worse than the occasional stalled board disease.
The lesson: Every mechanic costs mental energy. When facing a design challenge, always ask first: "What can I eliminate to solve this problem?" Remember, "dead now" doesn't mean "dead forever." Cut mechanics make great expansion content later.
Lesson 3: Perfect Your Pitch Through Repetition
Every game needs a killer hook, and the only way to find it is through repetition. Brutal, exhausting repetition.
I learned this the hard way at my first Gen Con booth, where we sold the first copies of Ascension 15 years ago. Over the course of the show, you pitch the game a hundred times. You refine, adjust, and figure out what works. By the end, I could pitch and demo Ascension in my sleep. I knew exactly how to get someone hooked, and the moment I no longer needed to be there (for Ascension, it’s usually turn three, when players start seeing the new cards they purchased and get excited about improving their decks).
Whenever possible, use things your audience already knows as a reference, combine two familiar concepts, or give a twist to something they’ve seen before. You need to get information about your target audience and customize the pitch to them. Once they’re hooked, you can guide them into a demo and, hopefully, into buying the game and sharing it with friends.
In 2010, if I knew my audience played Magic, my go-to pitch was:
“Imagine all the fun of drafting card packs in Magic, all with just one lifetime purchase.”
If they were familiar with Dominion, an effective pitch was:
“Ascension is like Dominion, but with a fun fantasy theme and you can play an entire game in the time it takes to set up a game of Dominion.”
If they weren’t familiar with either game category, I would usually start with a more theme forward pitch:
“Ascension is a 30 minute card game where you recruit mighty heroes and weapons to defeat monsters and earn honor.”
At first, pitching this way feels awkward. You have to train yourself to read the audience, adapt, and take feedback from their reactions. The best games also make it easy for players to teach friends, and those people become your best marketers. The more you practice pitching and running live demos, the more it will shape your design choices, helping you create games that are not only fun to play, but also fun to learn and teach.
The lesson: Practice pitching your game early and often. Alex Yeager’s 2-2-2 demo framework is a fantastic tool for game designers (you can hear more about it on my podcast with Alex here). Whether you need a two-sentence pitch, a two-minute overview, or a two-player demo, tailoring the level of detail to your audience is key. This approach prevents overwhelming your audience with too much information at once while still providing a clear and concise introduction to your game.
Lesson 4: Know Your Core Tension and Protect It
Every great game revolves around one central tension that hooks players.
* In Uno, you're trying to empty your hand without unlocking your opponents' cards.
* In chess, you protect your king while threatening your opponent's king.
* In poker, you want to win the pot but must risk chips without knowing what others hold.
* In Magic: The Gathering, the one-land-per-turn restriction forces agonizing tradeoffs about which spells to cast.
For Ascension, the core tension is this: adapting to an ever-changing market while your opponents threaten to snatch the exact cards you need.
The game sings when there are multiple exciting cards supporting your strategy, but your opponent might grab them first. Every choice matters because the board state is temporary. Purchasing a Mechana construct early makes each successive mechana construct better, but if your opponent cuts you off from the cards you need then y…
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeTim Ferriss — Designing Coyote, Playing to Learn, Publishing Truths, and Saying "No" (#89)
About Tim FerrissTim Ferriss is a category of one. His innovative approach to life and business has helped him to launch 5 New York Times Bestellers, build one of the most influential podcasts in the world with …
Show notes
About Tim Ferriss
Tim Ferriss is a category of one. His innovative approach to life and business has helped him to launch 5 New York Times Bestellers, build one of the most influential podcasts in the world with over one billion downloads, become an early stage investor in companies like Uber, Facebook, Shopify, Duolingo and more. His #1 New York Times Bestselling Book, The 4-Hour Work Week, was part of the inspiration for me to quit my job and start my own company (you can here more of that story in my appearance on Tim’s podcast here). And now he has taken all of those skills and brought them to game design with the release of Coyote. We dive deep on all of these topics and learn how Tim selects and approaches each new arena he seeks to conquer. Tim deliver’s on many insights that will apply to you regardless of your creative field.
Think Like A Game Designer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit justingarydesign.substack.com/subscribeCole Wehrle — Cute Creatures, Brutal Games, Asymmetric Design, and Subverting Expectations (#88)
About ColeCole Wehrle is one of the most innovative minds in board game design today. Cole is a partner at Leder Games, but best-known as the creator of Root, the woodland war game that redefined asymmetric …
Show notes
About Cole
Cole Wehrle is one of the most innovative minds in board game design today. Cole is a partner at Leder Games, but best-known as the creator of Root, the woodland war game that redefined asymmetric play. Cole’s work reaches far beyond cute meeples and clever mechanics, with a background in history and a career in academia, Cole approaches game design as a way to explore systems of power, narrative ambiguity, and the complexity of human behavior. In this episode, Cole and I dive deep into the tension between control and chaos, discussing how historical research fuels good design, and why the best games ask players to grapple with uncomfortable truths. Whether you’re designing your first prototype or searching for deeper meaning in your work, this conversation will challenge you to think differently about what games can do.
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