Marketing School – Digital Marketing and Online Marketing Tips
- Episodes
- 1,280
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- daily
- Latest episode
- Nov 13, 2026
About the podcast
Neil Patel and Eric Siu bring you daily ACTIONABLE digital marketing lessons that they've learned through years of being in the trenches. Whether you have a new website or you're an established business, you'll learn the latest SEO, content marketing, social media, email marketing, conversion optimization and general online marketing strategies that work today from people that actually practice marketing and operate business. Approaching 100M downloads with 2,500+ episodes, you're sure to find something that will help you grow faster. Also don't forget to subscribe to our Marketing School Youtube channel to get more marketing goodness. 94849990-341d-11f1-a99b-e154abd40242
Episodes 1,280
What You Need To Understand About Jensen Huang's Drama
Jensen Huang is out at NVIDIA and the stock is down 26%, so Eric and Neil look at it through an entrepreneur's lens. Neil explains why the company's quiet PR response let memes write the story and cost roughly …
Show notes
Jensen Huang is out at NVIDIA and the stock is down 26%, so Eric and Neil look at it through an entrepreneur's lens. Neil explains why the company's quiet PR response let memes write the story and cost roughly a trillion dollars in market cap, and what a founder CEO is really worth. Then: HubSpot's founder returns for Day 1, why one-star Glassdoor reviews can help you hire, Mandarin Oriental vs Motel 6 companies, takeaways from the YPO Global AI Summit, the Turkish rug funnel, and what they changed their minds on over the last 12 months. Nothing here is financial advice. A grounded episode on owning your narrative before someone else does.
Key takeaways
◾If you don't control your narrative, the internet fills the space
◾Honest negative reviews can attract the right hires
◾Marketing compounds when you skip the shortcutsChapters
00:00 Jensen is out and NVIDIA is down 26%
01:42 Neil's trade after the news broke
04:27 The marketing lesson: sell the news
05:21 The PR response that cost $1 trillion
07:12 Memes filled the silence
08:55 Should the board have ousted him?
10:13 Why founder CEOs are a different breed
11:34 HubSpot's founder is back: Day 1
13:51 When one-star Glassdoor reviews help hiring
16:12 Reading the reviews out loud
17:28 Mandarin Oriental vs Motel 6 companies
19:24 How Neil picks a hotel
22:44 Inside the YPO Global AI Summit
23:32 The team that got 80x faster
25:39 Speed vs quality is a false trade-off
25:52 Technical debt as good debt
26:58 Selling a cheaper fix for technical debt
28:23 AI hustles: data brokers
30:25 AI transformation theatre
31:38 Why marketing shortcuts backfire
33:13 Nine years to enterprise clients
35:24 Compounding and the horse meme
36:22 The horse riding upsell
39:53 The Turkish rug funnel
42:47 The gas station loss leader
46:25 What we changed our minds on
48:50 When travel is worth it
51:36 Retraining vs hiring AI-native people
53:47 Content we stopped making
56:18 Engagement that never becomes revenue
59:40 How GaryVee stays in his lane
1:02:05 What we held steady on
1:03:22 Elon: the general at the front lines
1:05:31 Neil's M&A negotiation
1:09:25 The agency deal that was too good to be true
1:12:08 Buying the incumbents
1:13:33 Agencies: a leads problem or a delivery problem?
1:15:31 Cracked marketers vs cracked engineersBuilding A $30M Business Without Debt (The Lean Approach)
Prioritize a low debt business model to keep your life calm and your company in your control. Most entrepreneurs feel pressured to take on massive leverage, but the Nextiva founder argues that staying lean …
Show notes
Prioritize a low debt business model to keep your life calm and your company in your control.
Most entrepreneurs feel pressured to take on massive leverage, but the Nextiva founder argues that staying lean offers a strategic advantage. We discuss why choosing self-funded growth allows you to make decisions based on long-term sustainability rather than lender requirements.
Choosing the right business tools, such as reliable phone service, is critical for operational efficiency. By selecting cost-effective solutions, you can maintain healthy profit margins without compromising on quality or service reliability.
From Marketing School with Neil Patel and Eric Siu.
Is Your Business Ready For The AI Shopping Wave?
New AI trends suggest that shoppers referred by artificial intelligence are showing higher intent to purchase. We examine the latest report from Andreessen Horowitz to understand how these AI-referred shoppers …
Show notes
New AI trends suggest that shoppers referred by artificial intelligence are showing higher intent to purchase.
We examine the latest report from Andreessen Horowitz to understand how these AI-referred shoppers differ from other online traffic. This analysis highlights why businesses need to adjust their strategy as the landscape of model research and development shifts rapidly.
Beyond technical advancements, we discuss how these changes in consumer behavior are impacting bottom-line results for modern businesses. We also touch on the importance of personal history and storytelling in maintaining a connection with your audience.
Why The Mid-Term Elections Are Important For Marketers
Analyze the midterm elections from a marketing perspective. Learn how recent political shifts impact your industry strategy. Eric Siu breaks down the recent midterm elections, focusing on why the Democrats …
Show notes
Analyze the midterm elections from a marketing perspective. Learn how recent political shifts impact your industry strategy.
Eric Siu breaks down the recent midterm elections, focusing on why the Democrats secured wins in the House and Senate. This analysis is designed for marketers and business owners who need to understand how political outcomes influence the broader economic landscape.
We examine the underlying factors that shaped these electoral results and what they mean for future campaign planning. By applying a marketing lens to these midterm elections, you can better anticipate shifts in consumer sentiment and market trends. Understanding this voter behavior helps refine your overall business strategy as the political climate evolves.
Subscribe for daily marketing insights, and let me know in the comments how you think these election results will impact your industry.
0:00 Marketing Lessons from Political Campaigns
2:07 Focusing on Customer Pain Points
5:52 The Power of In-Person Relationships
8:09 Refining Your Pitch for Higher Conversion
10:51 Networking at the Highest LevelUnfortunately, SEO Just Changed Forever
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here …
Show notes
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/
Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hireNeil Patel and Eric Siu open with a shift they say will define 2027: AI agents, not people, now do the searching, running 40 or 50 queries to pick which company to hire or buy from. They break down new data showing AI-referred shoppers convert far better than other online shoppers, and how much of Anthropic's own work AI now leads. Eric then shares what he learned at a YPO summit, from needs and leads sessions to a founder who raised $1M after a five-minute conversation. Neil walks through how debt changes the maths on buying a company, how lenders price risk, and why calm beats leverage. They also cover why posts stay online, short-form fatigue and picking guests for impact. The takeaway is simple: make your business easy for an agent to choose.
Key takeaways
◾If an AI agent runs 40 to 50 queries before choosing, your business has to be easy to find and pick
◾AI-referred shoppers convert better, so optimise for agents and assistants as well as for Google
◾High-risk lenders charge 40-50% in fees, so cheap debt and a calm life beat chasing 5x leverageChapters
00:00 AI agents now pick who wins
00:51 Google search is up, but ad revenue only +12%
02:01 Agents as personal assistants: the water heater story
03:29 Eric's AI assistant for his AI Summit
04:36 Grokbot, the genealogy bot and rising costs
06:16 Anthropic: AI now leads the work
09:18 AI in R&D: from assistant to coworker
11:21 AI shoppers convert 60% better
14:45 The Coachella of business events
17:16 Needs and leads: 8 hours, about 40 leads
18:29 A friend invests $1M after a 5-minute chat
20:26 Buying a company on debt: Neil's maths
24:02 Private credit: a thin spread for lenders
26:54 Intros and clear offers
27:29 Storytell to sell: the staffing pitch
28:53 Give intros without expecting anything back
30:24 He raised $1M in 5 minutes
32:13 What the YPO ticket costs
32:49 Being transactional: Neil's one-line DM
34:08 Midterms: why the Democrats won on messaging
36:57 AI layoffs: Microsoft, Google and Canva
38:27 Tailor the pitch: sell the bottom line
40:21 Relationships: Neil sees about 200 clients a year
42:10 Same offer, new wording: audit vs AI workflows
44:31 Run your own needs and leads without YPO
46:13 YPO Gold: the age and profit rules
50:13 Nextiva founder's advice: low debt, calm life
54:00 5x leverage: the maths
56:15 Eric on his 2021 debt deals
58:01 How lenders price risk: 1 in 400 loans
60:42 Agency roll-ups: when the founder wants out
62:52 Don't buy data centers: the Saudi energy guy
65:56 Elon deleting tweets: what you post stays
68:09 Short-form fatigue and who speaks freely
70:23 Who can say anything: the All-In hosts
73:13 Make content about what excites you
74:14 Steven Bartlett: interview who you want
76:14 Interview for impact, not views
76:37 Lose sales: ask once, ask clearly𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟
Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer.🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts
Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial
Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel📩 Free Resources
Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/
Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!
FlexJet CEO Doesn't Believe In M&A, Should You?
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here …
Show notes
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/
Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hireEric shares a clip of FlexJet's CEO, Kenn Ricci, saying he does not believe in M&A, and Neil pushes back with lessons from the companies he has bought. They agree on culture, look at big companies that grew through acquisitions, and Eric argues M&A is a tool, not a rule. They cover why buying a small business often comes with big, hairy problems. Then sales: Eric explains why reps should listen at least 60% of the time on a call, and shares how daily AI performance reviews feed his quarterly reviews. They discuss Gokul Rajaram's take on short and long work, and the risk of pay-for-performance deals for agencies. Judge every deal on its own numbers.
Key takeaways
◾M&A is a tool to use case by case, not a belief
◾In sales calls, listen more than you talk
◾Pay-for-performance deals carry real risk for agenciesChapters
00:00 Sales talk ratio, then FlexJet's CEO on M&A
02:02 Neil Patel defends M&A
04:55 Big companies built on M&A
07:12 M&A is a tool, not a rule
10:08 FlexJet's own acquisitions
11:50 Why small acquisitions bring big problems
12:43 Sales calls: listen 60, talk 40
15:07 Daily AI performance reviews
17:20 Gokul Rajaram on short vs long work
20:28 Pay-for-performance risk
21:57 Should agencies take performance deals?This Company Spends $32m Per Year On Claude Code!?
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here …
Show notes
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/
Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hireEric opens with Spawn, a company with 10 people that spends about 30 times its payroll on AI, and what an AI-native team looks like in practice. They cover iterating fast while changing less, the Money Prompt, and why experience still matters when AI does the work. Eric runs through Jen Abel's list of what startup sales teams get wrong and the advantage of founder-led sales. Neil explains why a win rate over 50% is a warning sign, often that you are not charging enough. Then GPT-6 Astra being distilled, what that means for IP, and how to make your offer a no-brainer for buyers. Speed and a strong offer beat protecting IP.
Key takeaways
◾AI-native teams can spend far more on AI than on payroll
◾A win rate over 50% is a warning sign, not a win
◾When IP is easy to copy, the offer and the speed winChapters
00:00 Spawn: 10 people, 30x payroll on AI
02:05 Iterate fast, change less
03:49 Money Prompt and experience
05:17 Jen Abel's startup sales list
07:48 Founder-led sales advantage
10:46 Win rate over 50% is a warning
14:23 GPT-6 Astra distilled: IP is dying
16:16 Make the offer a no-brainer𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟
Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer.🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts
Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial
Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel📩 Free Resources
Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/
Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!
Google Stock Fell 12%. 99% Of People Don't Understand What This means!
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here …
Show notes
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/
Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hireNeil starts with Google's stock falling 12% after earnings, the biggest drop he has seen after a report, and what it says about search. Eric walks through Granola's AEO workflow and how his team moved fast on a trend with an AI summit, plus why being too early can hurt. Neil shares tests on how AI agents pick local businesses, using a water softener search: review volume, fresh reviews, consistent messaging and comparison articles all shape who gets recommended. Eric demos the free AI visibility report, what it costs to run, and why Neil thinks fewer charts convert better. They finish on enterprise sales and booking more calls. AI search rewards brands that stay fresh and consistent.
Key takeaways
◾AI agents lean on review volume, freshness and consistent messaging
◾Comparison articles help you get picked in AI answers
◾Simpler reports with fewer charts can convert betterChapters
00:00 Google stock falls 12% after earnings
01:15 Neil on Google's valuation
02:42 Granola's AEO workflow
04:32 Hit trends fast: Eric's AI summit
07:03 How AI agents pick local businesses
09:00 Reviews: volume and freshness
10:56 Why comparison articles win
12:41 Free AI visibility report
13:46 What the report costs to run
14:45 Fewer charts convert better
15:51 Enterprise sales and booking calls𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟
Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer.🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts
Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial
Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel📩 Free Resources
Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/
Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!
Why You Should Give Away All Your Workflows
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here …
Show notes
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/
Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hireNeil opens with HighLevel's announcement that it is giving AI away for free, and why so few founders make big, expensive bets like that. Eric argues the bets are getting cheaper: anything you build now is out of date fast, so giving away workflows and bots buys mindshare that turns into service work. They weigh the real risk of not knowing your AI cost cap, rising compute and hardware prices, and Meta's open-ended AI spend. Eric shares why so few people use AI the way Andrej Karpathy describes, and what that means for AI-native firms hiring talent. Then a MacBook Pro quote, a Chinese glass company that got free advertising from the Paris riots, and what Black October's hacks mean for security and passkeys. Free value is still a strong growth lever.
Key takeaways
◾Giving AI tools away free can win mindshare that turns into paid work
◾Know your AI cost cap before you make usage unlimited
◾Being transparent after a security problem builds trustChapters
00:00 HighLevel gives AI away free
02:31 Give your workflows and bots away
04:30 AI costs, DGX Spark and Anthropic-SpaceX
06:57 Meta's open-ended AI spend
07:41 Andrej Karpathy: only 0.2% use AI this way
09:08 Scale founder's big bet
11:18 MacBook Pro $14K quote
13:38 Chinese glass company and the Paris riots
15:38 Neil's bulletproof windows
17:23 Black October hacks and passkeys
18:53 Be transparent when things go wrongHighLevel Is Giving AI Away Free. Neil Patel Calls It a Bold Bet (Full Episode)
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here …
Show notes
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/
Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hireNeil Patel opens on HighLevel giving AI away free, and why its CEO says that sometimes you just have to eat the cost. Eric Siu explains why he gives his own workflows and bots away too, now that an AI visibility report that once cost dollars costs 18 cents. They cover what AI compute costs now, from Eric's DGX Sparks to a MacBook Pro quote of about $14K, Andrej Karpathy's 0.2% figure, a Chinese glass company's Paris riots post, and simple security steps for Black October. Then how AI agents pick local businesses, Spawn's 10-person team spending 30x payroll on AI tokens, Jen Abel's startup sales list, and why GPT-6 Astra being distilled means your IP is dying. They finish on the FlexJet CEO's view of M&A, the listen-to-talk ratio on sales calls, daily AI performance reviews, pay-for-performance risk, Granola's AEO workflow, and Google stock falling 12% after earnings. AI keeps getting cheaper, so the bold move is to give more of it away.
Key takeaways
◾Giving AI tools and workflows away for free builds mindshare and leads
◾Move fast on trends, from events to security news to earnings
◾Use AI for daily feedback instead of waiting for yearly reviewsChapters
00:00 Neil's week: HighLevel, Experian, Milan
01:00 HighLevel gives AI away free
03:33 Give your workflows and bots away
05:32 AI costs, DGX Spark and Anthropic-SpaceX
08:43 Andrej Karpathy: only 0.2% use AI this way
10:10 Scale founder's big bet
12:01 MacBook Pro $14K quote
14:21 Chinese glass company and the Paris riots
18:06 Black October hacks and passkeys
20:30 Hit trends fast: Eric's AI summit
23:01 How AI agents pick local businesses
28:23 Free AI visibility report
32:58 Spawn: 10 people, 30x payroll on AI
35:10 Iterate fast, change less
36:54 Money Prompt and experience
38:22 Jen Abel's startup sales list
40:53 Founder-led sales advantage
43:31 Win rate over 50% is a warning
47:08 GPT-6 Astra distilled: IP is dying
49:01 Make the offer a no-brainer
51:06 FlexJet CEO on M&A
52:52 Neil Patel defends M&A
58:05 M&A is a tool, not a rule
1:03:36 Sales calls: listen 60, talk 40
1:06:00 Daily AI performance reviews
1:08:13 Gokul Rajaram on short vs long work
1:11:21 Pay-for-performance risk
1:14:40 The $14K laptop bet
1:15:57 Granola's AEO workflow
1:17:54 Google stock falls 12% after earnings
1:20:40 Wrap-up$1M Revenue, $5K salary? Time To Get a Job?
Neil Patel pays a content agency $17,000 a month. Then they asked for another 10 grand a month.Eric Siu and Neil ask why agency owners taking home $5,000 a month should not just get a job, then react to Gary …
Show notes
Neil Patel pays a content agency $17,000 a month. Then they asked for another 10 grand a month.
Eric Siu and Neil ask why agency owners taking home $5,000 a month should not just get a job, then react to Gary Vee on the monetization of random content.Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/
Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hireEric and Neil start with a content agency Neil pays $17,000 a month, which asked for 10 grand more a month and then changed the price an hour later. Neil asks why a team that takes home about $5,000 a month each on over a million dollars in revenue does not just get a job, and Eric says there is no shame in a salary after 10 years without traction. They contrast that with an agency that grew for roughly 38 years with few acquisitions. Then they react to a Gary Vee clip about the monetization of random content, with Neil explaining how algorithms now find interested viewers and Eric adding that authenticity matters. They close with Neil's dislike of being filmed constantly and a bakery post that drew 130,000 likes. Pick the marketing style that fits you.
Key takeaways
◾Charge what you want and pay what makes sense, without lectures
◾If the business has not scaled in 10 years, a job is a fine option
◾Random content works best when it is authentic and fits youChapters
00:00 A $17K a month helper asks for more
01:45 Charge what you want, pay what makes sense
03:18 What the helper's team takes home
03:53 Why not just get a job?
05:54 Under $100K a year for years
07:00 No shame in getting a job
07:21 Equity upside at fast-growing companies
08:45 Editing skills can earn more inside a company
09:38 An agency that kept growing for decades
10:36 How a 38-year agency grew without acquisitions
12:47 No right or wrong way to build a business
13:46 Gary Vee: the monetization of random content
16:33 How algorithms find interested viewers
18:36 Post random content, but stay authentic
19:47 Being filmed at Web Summit
20:53 Why content has to fit your personality
22:20 A bakery's authentic viral post𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟
Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer.🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts
Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial
Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel📩 Free Resources
Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/
Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!
AI Layoffs Backfired For This Marketing Agency
An internet marketer cut his team from a couple hundred people to under 100 and credits AI and OpenClaw with the work. Eric Siu and Neil Patel explain why AI cannot handle marketing work alone.Then Neil shares …
Show notes
An internet marketer cut his team from a couple hundred people to under 100 and credits AI and OpenClaw with the work. Eric Siu and Neil Patel explain why AI cannot handle marketing work alone.
Then Neil shares why he walked away from buying a European agency that is cutting staff to run on AI.Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/
Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hireEric and Neil start with a well-known internet marketer who cut his team from a couple hundred people to under 100 and says AI and OpenClaw now do 20 to 30 times more work. Eric says that claim hurts the marketer's credibility, and that AI should elevate capabilities rather than eliminate jobs. Neil describes a call with a European e-commerce agency he decided not to acquire, because it planned to shrink to eight to ten people, said two or three people could run its ad spend, and had lost three of its four biggest clients. Eric lists where AI output still needs a human editor, including his YouTube channel, ad creative, AEO and SEO content, and X posts. They also cover AI metrics that do not match business results, and how to handle client expectations and feedback. Human judgment still decides marketing results.
Key takeaways
◾Cutting staff and crediting AI for it can hurt a marketer's credibility
◾AI output still needs human taste and an editor in the loop
◾Optimize for business results and client value, not AI-suggested viewsChapters
00:00 Internet marketer says AI replaced his staff
00:58 Does cutting jobs hurt credibility?
01:46 OpenClaw is unreliable
03:16 Marketers who talk about AI without knowing it
03:45 Neil's call about acquiring an agency
04:33 The agency plans to shrink to eight or ten people
06:22 Why the agency is losing clients
08:11 Up or out, and selling a company
09:08 AI cannot handle marketing work alone
10:20 How Eric's view of AI has shifted
11:37 AI feedback creates a bias toward views
12:58 Views versus revenue
14:13 Clients pay for results, not effort
15:34 Optimizing for revenue, not brand
16:39 Two types of consultants
17:52 Why feedback is a gift𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟
Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer.🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts
Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial
Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel📩 Free Resources
Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/
Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!
How to Get Meta Muse to Recommend Your Product or Service
Meta Muse is now recommending products, and in one example it picked Beehiiv over Substack for a newsletter. Eric Siu and Neil Patel break down how to get recommended by AI: keep doing AEO and SEO, and get into …
Show notes
Meta Muse is now recommending products, and in one example it picked Beehiiv over Substack for a newsletter. Eric Siu and Neil Patel break down how to get recommended by AI: keep doing AEO and SEO, and get into new AI marketplaces and plugins early.
Plus how Grok helped Neil's co-founder beat a $7,600 Google quote with one under $5,000.Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/
Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hireEric and Neil start with Rob Hoffman's example of Meta Muse recommending a client's product as the best option on the market, and Muse choosing Beehiiv over Substack for a newsletter. Eric says to get listed you still have to do more AEO and more SEO, and calls Muse, Grok and OpenAI the next surface for it. Neil shares how his co-founder got a $7,600 water softener quote from Google, then had Grok find more companies and chose a quote under $5,000. He says most businesses never see that revenue because they do not track it. They debate whether AI platforms will sell paid leads, and Eric says to get into new marketplaces and plugins the moment they open. They then turn to Meta's AI spending, the data center race, Karpathy's numbers on AI users, and AI capital spending as a share of GDP.
Key takeaways
◾To get recommended by AI, you still have to do more AEO and SEO
◾Get into new AI marketplaces and plugins as soon as they open
◾AI-driven leads are hard to track, so many businesses miss the revenueChapters
00:00 Meta Muse picks Beehiiv over Substack
01:01 Muse, Grok and OpenAI: the next surface for AEO
01:09 The revenue lost by not optimizing for AI
01:46 A $7,600 Google quote vs a Grok quote under $5K
03:16 The cost of not optimizing for new channels
04:36 Will AI tools offer businesses more leads?
06:07 Paid marketplaces inside AI platforms
06:56 Will AI platforms keep results pure?
08:13 Get into new marketplaces and plugins early
08:58 Meta's AI spending and the stock drop
10:05 Zuckerberg's all-in data center bet
10:54 Will AI demand outrun data centers?
11:54 AI in toilets, fridges and robots
13:00 Marketing to the robot that shops for you
13:17 Karpathy's numbers and why demand keeps growing
14:51 AI build-out as a share of GDP
15:36 Jevons paradox and autonomous ABM𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟
Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer.🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts
Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial
Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel📩 Free Resources
Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/
Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!
Why AI Can't Replace Marketers, Gary Vee's Random Content and Meta Muse AEO
An internet marketer cut his team from a couple hundred people to under 100 and credits AI and OpenClaw. Eric Siu and Neil Patel explain why AI cannot handle marketing work alone, and why clients pay for …
Show notes
An internet marketer cut his team from a couple hundred people to under 100 and credits AI and OpenClaw. Eric Siu and Neil Patel explain why AI cannot handle marketing work alone, and why clients pay for results, not effort.
They cover a $17K a month content agency, Gary Vee on the monetization of random content, and how Meta Muse recommended a client's product, which is why getting recommended by AI is the new AEO. They also get into paid marketplaces inside AI platforms, Zuckerberg's all-in data center bet, marketing to robots and agents, Forrester's prediction that agents will influence 75% of B2B buying, and Marc Andreessen on the AI-native gap.
They close on hiring people who are AI native and why the biggest AI ROI is getting recommended.
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Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/
Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hireKey takeaways
◾AI cannot handle marketing work alone, human judgment still matters
◾Getting recommended by AI is the new AEO and the biggest ROI
◾Hire for AI fluency, and spend on AI where it makes moneyChapters
00:00 Internet marketer says AI replaced his staff
01:46 OpenClaw is unreliable
03:45 Neil's call about acquiring an agency
06:22 Why the agency is losing clients
08:47 AI cannot handle marketing work alone
11:21 AI feedback creates a bias toward views
13:57 Clients pay for results, not effort
16:23 Two types of consultants
18:38 A $17K a month helper asks for more
21:56 What the helper's team takes home
24:32 Under $100K a year for years
25:59 Equity upside at fast-growing companies
28:16 An agency that kept growing for decades
31:25 No right or wrong way to build a business
32:24 Gary Vee: the monetization of random content
35:11 How algorithms find interested viewers
38:25 Being filmed at Web Summit
40:58 A bakery's authentic viral post
41:53 Meta Muse recommends a client's product
43:38 A water softener search story
45:30 The cost of not optimizing for new channels
47:59 Paid marketplaces inside AI platforms
50:07 Get into new marketplaces and plugins early
51:24 Zuckerberg's all-in data center bet
54:41 Marketing to robots and agents
56:46 AI build-out as a share of GDP
58:33 Forrester: agents will influence 75% of B2B buying
1:00:06 Do you still need an assistant?
1:02:00 What makes a good assistant
1:05:48 Marc Andreessen on the AI-native gap
1:09:03 Hiring people who are AI native
1:10:57 Eric wants both skills in one hire
1:13:36 Did Eric ever want to replace all humans?
1:16:52 The biggest AI ROI is getting recommended
1:18:13 What a low AI spend can still mean𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟
Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer.🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts
Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial
Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel📩 Free Resources
Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/
Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!
The Truth About Corporate AI Spending (It's Not What You Think)
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here …
Show notes
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/
Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hireAccenture found some staff spending $1,000 a month on AI, so it set a $29 monthly limit per employee, and Eric and Neil both think the cap is smart. They point out that reported AI revenue can be gross rather than net, then cite Ramp's AI spend index, where the median is $11. They agree a policy needs exceptions for people who prove value, while Neil shares how he downgraded his ChatGPT plan. The back half covers two-slice teams, Bending Spoons' model of cutting most of a company, and Evernote going from 433 staff at its peak to about 30 today. They close on Berkshire Hathaway's $330M stake in Bending Spoons and the 41% jump in the stock. Spend with a reason.
Key takeaways
◾Accenture's $29 cap is smart, but proven high spenders should get exceptions
◾Most people pay for top models to do basic work, so match the model to the task
◾Evernote went from 433 staff at its peak to about 30 under Bending SpoonsChapters
00:00 Accenture caps AI spend at $29 a month
00:23 Did staff really spend $1,000 a month?
01:53 Reported AI revenue is often gross, not net
03:31 Ramp's AI spend index: median is $11
04:14 Set a policy, then talk to top spenders
04:56 Exceptions for people proving value
05:45 Neil downgrades his ChatGPT plan
06:39 A 45-minute AI session that is worth it
08:26 Two-slice teams, not two-pizza teams
09:30 Pirate and architect: coordination drag
10:25 Small teams ship faster
12:00 Meta's 200 people out of 70,000
12:39 Bending Spoons: a private equity model
14:04 A layoff post that also launches features
15:24 Evernote: 433 staff at peak, about 30 now
16:18 Why public markets accept deep cuts
17:07 Berkshire's $330M stake, stock up 41%𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟
Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer.🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts
Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial
Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel📩 Free Resources
Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/
Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!
The Rule of 7 Is Dead: Why You Need 28 Touches Now
Eric and Neil say the rule of 7 has grown toward the rule of 28, and that buyers touch a brand 8 times for a sub-$100 B2C buy and 23 times at $10K-plus. A gelato shop stranger who knew them from different …
Show notes
Eric and Neil say the rule of 7 has grown toward the rule of 28, and that buyers touch a brand 8 times for a sub-$100 B2C buy and 23 times at $10K-plus. A gelato shop stranger who knew them from different places makes the case that you never know where people will find you. They cover why YouTube drives leads that nobody can attribute, then Meta's $14.9B deal for 49% of Scale AI and the 200-person AI team that Alexander Wang, the former Scale AI CEO, leads. Zuckerberg's line that talent density beats big teams for AI is tested against Meta's 70,000 staff. Neil explains his private equity mindset and his debt at SOFR plus 2%, and they close on the failures that come with big bets. Attention, talent and the cost of big bets.
Key takeaways
◾Buyers touch a brand 8 times for a cheap B2C buy and 23 times at $10K-plus
◾Meta built a 200-person AI team out of 70,000 staff, which Zuckerberg calls talent density
◾Meta paid $14.9B for 49% of Scale AI, and Eric says the bet looks like it is paying off
Chapters
00:00 Rule of 7 is now the rule of 28
00:44 Touches before buying: 8 cheap, 23 at $10K+
01:34 A gelato shop stranger, and where people find you
03:53 YouTube drives leads you cannot attribute
04:27 Platforms stop sharing data
06:23 Meta's 200-person AI team, talent over size
07:36 Neil's private equity mindset
09:18 Zuckerberg asks peers what they would do
10:44 Neil's debt: SOFR plus 2%
13:14 Pain now for a bigger company later
14:17 Failures: rockets, timelines and the metaverse
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Do NOT Sleep on X Money!
Eric and Neil start with X Money, which pays 3% cash back and 6% interest, and argue that the offer is under marketed and would get more people investing. They test an AI-written blog post on a client, who took …
Show notes
Eric and Neil start with X Money, which pays 3% cash back and 6% interest, and argue that the offer is under marketed and would get more people investing. They test an AI-written blog post on a client, who took it for human writing, then cover a time-on-page chart that compares human and AI content. They debate whether writing is thinking and whether a real name still beats AI copy. Dan Shipper's claim that newsletters are dying, from a writer with over 120,000 subscribers, leads to a debate on email, AI summaries in the inbox and whether YouTube is S-tier. They close on every channel getting more competitive over time. Human voice still earns the trust.
Key takeaways
◾X Money pays 3% cash back and 6% interest, but the 3% has fine print
◾A human byline near the title held readers longer in their time-on-page test
◾Eric and Neil dispute Dan Shipper's claim that newsletters are dead
Chapters
00:00 X Money: 6% interest
04:07 The AI blog post test
10:01 Potato, SpaceX and GrokBot
10:33 Writing is thinking
14:26 Which channels are S-tier
15:47 Are newsletters dead?
17:06 AI summaries and the inbox
18:46 Every channel gets more competitive
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Tesla's Flying Roadster DESTROYED Porsche's Supercar Launch
Eric and Neil open with Tesla's Roadster flying car, which they treat as a marketing stunt that keeps Tesla in the conversation. The AI fluency gap follows, with Karpathy's funnel, where most people barely …
Show notes
Eric and Neil open with Tesla's Roadster flying car, which they treat as a marketing stunt that keeps Tesla in the conversation. The AI fluency gap follows, with Karpathy's funnel, where most people barely touch an LLM, and agents that still misfire. Next is X Money and the newsletter debate, then a blog post test that a client took for human writing. The back half covers the rule of 28, Meta's 200-person AI team inside a 70,000 staff company, and why YouTube leads are hard to attribute. The show ends on Accenture's $29 monthly AI cap, Ramp's AI spend index and Bending Spoons' cuts at Evernote. Attention, trust and spend with a reason.
Key takeaways
◾Accenture's $29 AI cap is smart, but proven high spenders should get exceptions
◾Meta built a 200-person AI team out of 70,000 staff, which Zuckerberg calls talent density
◾Tesla's flying Roadster is a stunt, and agents still need a human check
Chapters
00:00 Tesla's flying car stunt
04:56 Is the Roadster $50,000 or $250,000?
09:48 Why Porsche lost its edge
12:22 Agents, not models
13:58 Agents still unreliable in marketing
17:19 Karpathy's AI-gap funnel
20:00 Agent slop and the cost of rework
21:00 Workflows as a service
22:08 X Money: 6% interest
26:34 The AI blog post test
32:08 Potato, SpaceX and GrokBot
32:41 Writing is thinking
36:34 Which channels are S-tier
37:55 Are newsletters dead?
41:24 Rule of 7 is now the rule of 28
45:17 YouTube drives leads you cannot attribute
47:47 Meta's 200-person AI team, talent over size
49:00 Neil's private equity mindset
52:08 Neil's debt: SOFR plus 2%
55:41 Failures: rockets, timelines and the metaverse
56:42 Accenture caps AI spend at $29 a month
1:00:14 Ramp's AI spend index: median is $11
1:02:09 Neil downgrades his ChatGPT plan
1:03:03 A 45-minute AI session that is worth it
1:04:49 Two-slice teams, not two-pizza teams
1:09:02 Bending Spoons: a private equity model
1:11:47 Evernote: 433 staff at peak, about 30 now
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/
The Wells Fargo Client Retention Strategy That Actually Works
Some agencies win clients by inviting decision makers to Formula One boxes, but Neil prefers the way banks play the wine and dining game. Bank of America sent his CFO to a World Cup game with the hotel paid …
Show notes
Some agencies win clients by inviting decision makers to Formula One boxes, but Neil prefers the way banks play the wine and dining game. Bank of America sent his CFO to a World Cup game with the hotel paid, and Wells Fargo offers suites and seats after the deal is done, just to say thanks. Then a competing bank tried to match Wells Fargo's refinance offer at the last minute, after months of saying no. Eric shares a group text pitch dressed up as comparing notes, and Neil tells the worst pitch he's heard: a financial advisor chasing a friend's $25M house sale and eight-figure profit with one cherry-picked account and a stock that barely moves down. A blunt episode on relationships and selling.
Key takeaways
◾Thank-you tickets with no pitch keep clients around
◾Match the offer early, because last-minute fixes come too late
◾Be direct when you sell, and show all your numbers
Chapters
00:00 The wine and dining game
00:47 Competitors win clients with Formula One boxes
01:30 Bank of America sent our CFO to the World Cup
02:32 Wells Fargo offers tickets after the deal
03:39 Tickets with no sales pitch keep clients
04:44 The bank that came too late
05:48 Too little, too late, like a bad hire
06:33 Steve Jobs to Tim Cook: do the right thing
07:18 Group texts gone wrong
08:49 Selling while pretending not to sell
09:50 The worst sales pitch
10:52 One client account next to Buffett and Ackman
12:05 70% leverage and 'it barely moves down'
12:58 AI showed the stock drops far more often
13:44 Big investors get deals you don't
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Why We Fired Our Team to Grow 50x on YouTube
Eric built thumbnail, editing and posting skills, and his long-form YouTube videos went from about 500 views to 15,000 to 25,000. Some of the team wouldn't use them, so they had to let people go, and the one …
Show notes
Eric built thumbnail, editing and posting skills, and his long-form YouTube videos went from about 500 views to 15,000 to 25,000. Some of the team wouldn't use them, so they had to let people go, and the one person who stepped up is now fixing the Marketing School channel's trends, thumbnails and 30-second retention. Neil says AI optimizes for average, which still beats a below-average team, but you need humans in the loop. They cover Bain's 94% stat, why Neil would rather hire great marketers and teach them AI, and a senior SEO candidate who read straight off a Claude template. Then Neil's Zappos story, how Uber outspent Lyft, why AI rewards whoever raises billions, and Neil's Muse outreach to M&A advisors. An honest episode on AI skills and hiring.
Key takeaways
◾Skills only work when someone spends real time tuning them
◾Hire people who stay curious and put their best foot forward
◾Small touches like Zappos' overnight shoes build loyalty
Chapters
00:00 We got more views by firing
00:51 Skills took Eric's videos from 500 views to 25K
02:13 Cover the trend first, fix thumbnails and retention
02:56 Neil: AI optimizes for average
04:01 You still need humans in the loop
04:46 Bain's 94% and the coming job displacement
05:30 How we hire marketers now
06:36 A senior SEO candidate read off a Claude template
08:38 Lazy before the contract means worse after
09:46 The agency hire who said they're too slow
10:31 Hire people who never stop learning
11:12 Small touches build brands
12:38 Fundamentals move metrics more than campaigns
13:48 Uber won by subsidizing more than Lyft
15:08 Why a cheap Waymo rival can't win
16:10 AI rewards whoever raises billions
17:11 Muse is taking the market
17:58 Neil's Muse outreach lands a UK call
18:51 Red flags in the deals bankers pitch
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ChatGPT Plugins Added $500K ARR in Days
Someone added $500K in ARR in a week by putting their app in ChatGPT plugins, and Eric wants Carrot, Answer the Public and Ubersuggest in there too. Neil says that at scale, plugins help retention more than …
Show notes
Someone added $500K in ARR in a week by putting their app in ChatGPT plugins, and Eric wants Carrot, Answer the Public and Ubersuggest in there too. Neil says that at scale, plugins help retention more than revenue. He's also seeing clients arrive with business problems instead of asks, like revenue down 6% and leads down 32%, and Eric says that grows the market for agencies. Then customer service as marketing: a SpaceX growth lead fixing Grokbot before a webinar, On refunding an order without telling Eric, and Neil's Marriott check-in. They compare the Ritz-Carlton's budget to go beyond policy with Airbnb's 9-star idea, then trade travel tips on room service, compression bags and Sterling Pacific luggage. A practical episode on plugins and service.
Key takeaways
◾ChatGPT plugins are a distribution channel worth building for
◾Pitch the fix for the client's business problem, whatever the channel
◾Bending policy to fix a mistake earns word of mouth
Chapters
00:00 Plugins add $500K in ARR
01:13 Neil: plugins help retention more than revenue
02:05 Clients bring problems now
03:10 Revenue down 6%, leads down 32%
04:17 Solving the whole problem set grows the TAM
04:58 Customer service is marketing
06:06 On.com's surprise refund and split order
08:03 Neil's Marriott check-in
09:22 Charged for the night before, told to wait
10:11 A room appeared once it was their fault
10:58 Grokbot support hid behind policy
11:55 Ritz-Carlton and Airbnb's 9-star experience
12:39 Four Seasons prices, Disney cruise experience
13:56 Room service, laundry and one carry-on
14:48 Compression bags and Sterling Pacific luggage
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
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Neil Patel and Eric Siu's Biggest Business Wins and Mistakes of 2026
It's Q4, so Eric and Neil run through their business and marketing highlights and lowlights for the year. Eric's win was hiring AI-native people after learning he couldn't train everyone, and Neil's was the …
Show notes
It's Q4, so Eric and Neil run through their business and marketing highlights and lowlights for the year. Eric's win was hiring AI-native people after learning he couldn't train everyone, and Neil's was the lowest churn in a long time. Neil explains bankruptcy clawbacks, where the lawyers always win, with FTX legal fees near $700M, and how tariffs and war cut client budgets. Eric's team now makes and manages bots, including one that shortlists recruits every day. On marketing, YouTube is bringing enterprise leads, Neil found out he did 12.7M views in 30 days, and Gavin Baker reports 80% of token spend has flipped to open-weight models. Eric covers outbound, wedges and Higgsfield's weekly launches, and Neil explains why he wants the chill life. A candid look back at the year.
Key takeaways
◾Hire adaptable, AI-native people instead of trying to train everyone
◾Let bots handle evaluation work like recruiting shortlists
◾Test lots of ideas cheaply, then back the ones with traction
Chapters
00:00 Q4 business highlights
00:44 Eric's lowlight: thinking he could train people
01:28 Neil's lowest churn in years
02:32 Bankruptcy clawbacks and legal drama
03:29 Lawyers always win: FTX's $700M in fees
04:43 Tariffs, war and budgets
06:20 Optimistic about 2027?
07:05 Payment plans for groceries
08:31 We make and manage bots
09:13 Recruiters who say they can't build it
10:00 Marketing highlights
10:47 Enterprise leads who found us on YouTube
11:32 Ad Age's performance marketing agency of the year
13:33 Neil's 12.7M views in 30 days
14:38 A slow speaking summer, two months at home
15:37 Neil only buys companies at a good deal
16:21 Best returns with the least stress
17:14 Outbound, wedges and 15-minute standups
18:39 Skillsdojo: pair engineers with marketers
19:43 Crank out 100 ideas, double down on winners
20:48 Gavin Baker: 80% of token spend flipped
21:46 Higgsfield ships a new feature every week
22:28 Neil does better in services than tech
23:42 Think like a capital allocator
25:08 Neil just wants the chill life
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We FIRED Our YouTube Team. AI Took Views From 300 to 8,000 (Full Episode)
How to grow a YouTube channel with AI, win clients with the wine and dining game, and use ChatGPT plugins for growth. Eric's AI skills for thumbnails, editing and posting took his long-form views from about 500 …
Show notes
How to grow a YouTube channel with AI, win clients with the wine and dining game, and use ChatGPT plugins for growth. Eric's AI skills for thumbnails, editing and posting took his long-form views from about 500 to 15,000 to 25,000, and the people who wouldn't use them had to go. Neil says AI optimizes for average, and they cover hiring and why AI rewards whoever raises billions. Then the wine and dining game: Formula One boxes, Bank of America and Wells Fargo tickets, and a financial advisor's pitch after a friend's $25M house sale. Next, ChatGPT plugins adding $500K in ARR, clients arriving with leads down 32%, and service stories from Grokbot, On and Marriott. They finish with Q4 highlights and lowlights, from recruiting bots to Neil's 12.7M views in 30 days. The whole conversation in one place.
Key takeaways
◾Skills only work when someone spends real time tuning them
◾Thank-you tickets with no pitch keep clients around
◾Pitch the fix for the client's business problem, whatever the channel
Chapters
00:00 We got more views by firing
00:51 Skills took Eric's videos from 500 views to 25K
02:13 Cover the trend first, fix thumbnails and retention
02:56 Neil: AI optimizes for average
04:01 You still need humans in the loop
04:46 Bain's 94% and the coming job displacement
05:30 How we hire marketers now
06:17 A senior SEO candidate read off a Claude template
08:19 Lazy before the contract means worse after
09:27 The agency hire who said they're too slow
10:11 Hire people who never stop learning
10:53 Small touches build brands
12:19 Fundamentals move metrics more than campaigns
13:29 Uber won by subsidizing more than Lyft
14:48 Why a cheap Waymo rival can't win
15:51 AI rewards whoever raises billions
16:52 Muse is taking the market
17:38 Neil's Muse outreach lands a UK call
18:31 Red flags in the deals bankers pitch
19:25 The wine and dining game
20:12 Competitors win clients with Formula One boxes
20:55 Bank of America sent our CFO to the World Cup
21:56 Wells Fargo offers tickets after the deal
23:03 Tickets with no sales pitch keep clients
24:06 The bank that came too late
25:09 Too little, too late, like a bad hire
25:55 Steve Jobs to Tim Cook: do the right thing
26:39 Group texts gone wrong
28:10 Selling while pretending not to sell
29:12 The worst sales pitch
30:14 One client account next to Buffett and Ackman
31:26 70% leverage and 'it barely moves down'
32:20 AI showed the stock drops far more often
33:06 Big investors get deals you don't
33:53 Plugins add $500K in ARR
35:06 Neil: plugins help retention more than revenue
35:58 Clients bring problems now
37:03 Revenue down 6%, leads down 32%
38:09 Solving the whole problem set grows the TAM
38:51 Customer service is marketing
39:59 On.com's surprise refund and split order
41:40 Neil's Marriott check-in
42:59 Charged for the night before, told to wait
43:48 A room appeared once it was their fault
44:35 Grokbot support hid behind policy
45:32 Ritz-Carlton and Airbnb's 9-star experience
46:16 Four Seasons prices, Disney cruise experience
47:32 Room service, laundry and one carry-on
48:25 Compression bags and Sterling Pacific luggage
50:17 Q4 business highlights
51:01 Eric's lowlight: thinking he could train people
52:04 Neil's lowest churn in years
53:08 Bankruptcy clawbacks and legal drama
54:05 Lawyers always win: FTX's $700M in fees
55:19 Tariffs, war and budgets
56:56 Optimistic about 2027?
57:41 Payment plans for groceries
59:07 We make and manage bots
59:49 Recruiters who say they can't build it
1:00:37 Marketing highlights
1:01:24 Enterprise leads who found us on YouTube
1:02:08 Ad Age's performance marketing agency of the year
1:03:54 Neil's 12.7M views in 30 days
1:04:58 A slow speaking summer, two months at home
1:05:57 Neil only buys companies at a good deal
1:06:41 Best returns with the least stress
1:07:35 Outbound, wedges and 15-minute standups
1:09:00 Skillsdojo: pair engineers with marketers
1:10:03 Crank out 100 ideas, double down on winners
1:11:08 Gavin Baker: 80% of token spend flipped
1:12:06 Higgsfield ships a new feature every week
1:12:48 Neil does better in services than tech
1:14:02 Think like a capital allocator
1:15:28 Neil just wants the chill life
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SEO Strategy: Why 'Versus' Pages Are Your Secret Weapon
Why versus pages are your secret SEO weapon. Noah Kagan shipped 19 SEO pages from a $20 Mac app and got six sales in three days, and Eric breaks down the two page types every product needs: versus pages and …
Show notes
Why versus pages are your secret SEO weapon. Noah Kagan shipped 19 SEO pages from a $20 Mac app and got six sales in three days, and Eric breaks down the two page types every product needs: versus pages and best-for guides. Neil adds two fixes, getting other sites to publish them and comparing the brands ChatGPT and Claude already recommend, and says comparison pages drive more revenue than listicles. Then Instinct: 10% daily growth, 40% of users adding a card, and why Neil would sell it to Apple. Sam Lessin says there is no moat in AI agents, Neil's Muse test turns hundreds of drafts into three sent emails, and Outrank's data shows sites with 400+ links got 115% more Google clicks. A practical episode on SEO and AI agents.
Key takeaways
◾Build versus and alternative pages for the competitors AI already cites
◾AI agents have little loyalty, so the product has to keep earning it
◾Linkable assets still move Google clicks
Chapters
00:00 Noah Kagan's 19 SEO pages and 6 sales
01:16 Neil: get other sites to publish your pages
02:38 Listicles are the new links
03:39 Comparison pages drive more revenue than listicles
04:02 Instinct: 10% a day, 40% add a card
05:21 Neil: Instinct should sell to Apple
06:37 Eric bets the founder sells
07:39 Apple could build this itself
08:24 Sam Lessin: there is no moat in AI agents
10:02 Neil's Muse test: hundreds of drafts, 3 sent
13:47 Every's personal agent comparison
14:24 Jev as a classifier for a fraction of a penny
16:36 Nobody is loyal to an AI product
17:37 Outrank: 400+ links, 115% more Google clicks
19:48 Neil: building something good? Ignore the hate
20:58 Linkable assets beat bought links
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Stop Selling SEO: The New Way to Win $6M Deals
Neil's team won a $6M, three-year SEO contract without talking about SEO: they pitched the business problem, the board's numbers and the ROI. Eric reads the September jobs report, 29,000 jobs against a 90,000 …
Show notes
Neil's team won a $6M, three-year SEO contract without talking about SEO: they pitched the business problem, the board's numbers and the ROI. Eric reads the September jobs report, 29,000 jobs against a 90,000 forecast, and they agree that without AI growth the economy would be in recession. Neil shares a grocery bill and a moment at Target, and his plan to stop taxing people under $100K. Then agents: Latin America's biggest retailer, optimizing for LLMs to choose you, and Eric's Meta agent haggling 40% off an order from On. Eric covers OpenAI's Dots and its new distribution channels to 1 billion monthly users, and they close on X Money's 6% offer. A grounded episode on selling in hard times.
Key takeaways
◾Pitch the business outcome, not rankings or links
◾Optimize for AI agents to choose you, not just list you
◾A great offer still beats a clever pitch
Chapters
00:00 Neil's team won a $6M SEO deal without talking SEO
01:28 Sell the business case, not features
03:23 September jobs report: no AI, recession
04:26 Neil's grocery bill and the grandma at Target
06:47 Bridging the gap to abundance
07:26 Neil's tax plan for people under $100K
08:49 How to win any deal: solve their problem
09:35 Latin America's biggest retailer and AI agents
10:35 Optimize for LLMs to choose you
12:28 Eric's Meta agent haggles 40% off at On
14:01 Neil won't let AI near his travel
14:47 OpenAI's Dots spots errors in your email
15:36 Dot.com is owned by SpaceX
16:08 OpenAI's 1B MAU distribution channels
17:21 Microsoft and Google will undercut the labs
18:23 X Money: 6% on cash, 3% back
20:36 Neil wants his cash back in SpaceX stock
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The Companies That Pay MILLIONS For Your Data…
AI labs are paying millions of dollars for company data through third parties, so should you sell yours? Neil says it depends on the business model, and Eric warns the labs will use that data to compete with …
Show notes
AI labs are paying millions of dollars for company data through third parties, so should you sell yours? Neil says it depends on the business model, and Eric warns the labs will use that data to compete with you. Then a Bain study: only 6% of marketers say AI has had a significant impact on performance. Eric explains why that matches the top slice of any company, Neil shares the three places AI is actually winning for clients, and an a16z chart shows just 2.2% of households pay for AI. They explain why they stopped hiring clippers after YouTube's originality update, why niche videos bring qualified leads, and how Neil now picks topics from his sales pipeline. An honest episode on data and content.
Key takeaways
◾Do not sell data that lets the labs compete with you
◾AI only pays when it is aimed at work that moves revenue
◾Original, niche content beats clipped reach
Chapters
00:00 Should you sell your data to the AI labs?
02:06 Data is the moat as models converge
02:51 Eric's YouTube videos are driving leads
03:45 Bain: only 6% of marketers see AI impact
05:13 Neil asks: how many of you are growing?
06:10 Neil's top 3 AI wins in marketing
07:29 AI amplifies effort, and only 2.2% of homes pay
08:59 Why we stopped hiring clippers
09:58 YouTube's originality update for Shorts
11:54 Neil's team wanted 10 clip channels
12:58 Eric no longer needs an editor or a poster
13:32 Niche content brings qualified leads
15:27 Neil's channel: topics from the sales pipeline
16:52 Long form once a month, shorts twice
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Instinct's Founder Proves You DON'T Need a Personal Brand.
Instinct, the AI agent that lives in iMessage, is growing 10% a day, and Eric says its 23-year-old founder proves you do not need a personal brand to win. Neil explains why personal brands worked five years …
Show notes
Instinct, the AI agent that lives in iMessage, is growing 10% a day, and Eric says its 23-year-old founder proves you do not need a personal brand to win. Neil explains why personal brands worked five years ago, why Neil Patel Digital became NP Digital to cut key man risk, and why shoppers now switch brands on a dime. Eric shares DHH's talk on all the things his team no longer does, and the OpenRouter chart where agents use 7.5 trillion tokens against 1 trillion for humans. Then the bill arrives: finance teams pushing back on AI spend, a friend burning $14K a day on tokens, and Hormozi's memo capping his team's AI budget. They close on hiring AI-native people who can keep up. A sharp episode on brand and AI spend.
Key takeaways
◾People buy the product now, not the founder's personal brand
◾Every AI tool needs an ROI number, not an estimate of time saved
◾Hire people who are AI native and can prove a return
Chapters
00:00 Instinct grows 10% a day, no personal brand needed
01:21 Lisa Su's Formula One badge moment
02:06 Personal brands worked five years ago
02:41 Why Neil Patel Digital became NP Digital
04:01 Shoppers now switch brands on a dime
05:32 It has never been easier to make
06:19 DHH: look at all the things I'm not doing
07:34 Agent tokens now dwarf human tokens
10:50 Finance teams push back on AI spend
11:32 A teammate maxed out the Ahrefs tokens
13:02 A friend spends $14K a day on tokens
13:44 B2B tools ship too many features
14:49 Hormozi's AI usage cap memo
16:44 Training won't fix a mindset
18:28 Hire AI-native people who can keep up
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The AI-Native Marketer Looks Like This
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here …
Show notes
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/
Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hireEric shares how Cody Schneider works as an AI-native marketer, and Neil talks about his interview on Cole Gordon's show and why research is what separates a good interview. Then Neil says out loud that his personal brand is dying, judged by fewer photo requests at events, and Eric explains it with the four burners theory and the shift from social media to interest media. They talk about the content an experienced operator should make, why Neil keeps playing the game, and Eric's travel stats. The close covers why brand takes ten years or more, YouTube's coming thumbnail tests by audience segment, and Clay's CEO on why brand has to start with the founder, not the CMO. An honest episode about brand, time and attention.
Key takeaways
◾Interest media rewards the post, not the follower count
◾A real brand takes ten years or more to build
◾Brand starts with the founder; a CMO cannot install itChapters
00:00 The AI-native marketer: Cody Schneider
01:36 Neil on Cole Gordon's podcast
04:24 Research is what makes an interview good
04:54 'My personal brand is dying'
06:35 The four burners theory
07:19 Social media became interest media
09:03 What Neil's team does for him now
12:49 Addicted to the game
13:27 Eric's travel stats
16:36 Which speaking gigs are worth it
17:54 Brand takes 10+ years
20:03 SEO has always evolved
20:24 YouTube's big changes: thumbnails by segment
22:11 Clay: brand starts with the founderJev Is A MASSIVE Deal for Marketers
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here …
Show notes
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/
Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hireEric shows the Jev use cases he is running for his teams, from classifying every Instagram follower to scoring hooks and offers across competitors for a few dollars. Neil explains how his Muse agent now writes the follow-ups on M&A deals he first discussed two or three years ago, and why he gives Meta access he would never give the AI labs. Eric predicts Google and Apple will each ship their own Muse, and they compare it with OpenClaw. Then the story of an AI answer nobody checked and why Neil told them he would fire the person, followed by the core idea: AI is leverage, and leverage on a bad position just loses you money faster. They close on an $80M real estate pitch Neil walked away from. A practical episode on putting AI agents to work.
Key takeaways
◾Classification at scale now costs dollars, not an analyst's week
◾The deals you close come from follow-ups on talks two or three years old
◾AI is leverage: it multiplies good judgment and bad judgment equallyChapters
00:00 Jev use cases for marketers
02:50 Neil's AI writes his M&A follow-ups
06:02 Prediction: Google and Apple ship their own Muse
07:53 OpenClaw vs Muse
11:13 'I would fire you': AI output nobody checked
13:07 Slop cannons in an AI-native company
13:54 AI is leverage
15:11 The $80M real estate pitch
17:12 Location, location, locationJensen Huang's Moat Is Dead. But He Has A Plan
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here …
Show notes
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/
Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hireEric brings Peter Diamandis's take that Nvidia's greatest moat, CUDA, is leaking now that AI can port code to any chip, and why Jensen bought Mellanox years ago to own the interconnect instead. They debate the three moats that survive: speed of reinvention, capital velocity and brand. Neil keeps brand, drops capital after Harry Stebbings' three rounds in three weeks, and adds talent density, showing six of the top ten companies come from the Bay Area. Then Meta Muse: the $14B Scale bet Neil admits he would never have made, Eric's bot Doodoo picking his wardrobe, and Muse plus Jev sorting 116,000 followers for $3.30. It ends on the personality test that explains the show. A sharp episode on what still protects a business.
Key takeaways
◾Your moat lasts until the next one; speed of reinvention is the durable edge
◾AI shoppers still buy brands, because people tell them what status looks like
◾Neil waits for proof, then bets big; Zuckerberg bet first and wonChapters
00:00 Nvidia's CUDA moat is leaking
02:29 Neil: brand is a moat, capital isn't
03:35 Harry Stebbings: three rounds in three weeks
05:07 Six of the top 10 companies come from the Bay
07:02 The three moats that survive
09:13 Neil: AI shoppers still care about brand
11:46 Meta Muse and Scale's $14B bet
12:16 Doodoo picks Eric's wardrobe
13:04 Muse + Jev sort 116K followers for $3.30
14:29 Neil's influential followers
15:43 Why Neil waits for proof, then bets big
18:11 Why this podcast works: persist vs change
19:03 The personality test: 99% vs 1%
20:50 Empathy at work
These are the latest 40 of 1,280 episodes. You’ll find older episodes in the podcast’s feed.
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