The Art of Network Engineering
- Episodes
- 214
- Released
- every two weeks
- Latest episode
- Nov 4, 2026
About the podcast
The Art of Network Engineering blends technical insight with real-world stories from engineers, innovators, and IT pros. From data centers on cruise ships to rockets in space, we explore the people, tools, and trends shaping the future of networking, while keeping it authentic, practical, and human.
We tell the human stories behind network engineering so every engineer feels seen, supported, and inspired to grow in a rapidly changing industry.
For more information, check out https://artofnetworkengineering.com
Contributors
Episodes 214
Why Network Engineers Are Built for the AI Era
With Remington Loose
What if network engineers are starting on third base in the AI era?While others are learning how complex systems communicate, how to troubleshoot failures, and how to validate results, network engineers have …
Show notes
What if network engineers are starting on third base in the AI era?
While others are learning how complex systems communicate, how to troubleshoot failures, and how to validate results, network engineers have spent years doing exactly that.
In this episode of The Art of Network Engineering, Andy sits down with Remington Loose from St. Jude Children's Research Hospital to explore why those hard-earned skills give network engineers an unexpected advantage in AI.
From AI agents and automation to systems thinking and large language models, they discuss how existing networking expertise translates into this new world.
But starting on third base doesn't mean you've scored. You still have to learn the tools, experiment, and understand where AI can help, and where human judgment remains essential.
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Chapters (16)
From Ethernet to AI: Earning a Network Engineer’s Trust
With Scott Robohn
What does new technology have to prove before you trust it with your network?Scott Robohn joins Andy Lapteff for a conversation about earning trust, from Ethernet interoperability and vendor bake-offs to …
Show notes
What does new technology have to prove before you trust it with your network?
Scott Robohn joins Andy Lapteff for a conversation about earning trust, from Ethernet interoperability and vendor bake-offs to network automation and AI. Recorded at Networking Field Day 41, they explore how explicit testing, clear permissions, error handling, and human judgment help engineers decide when a system is ready for more responsibility.
Scott revisits a four-vendor evaluation at Bell Atlantic and describes lessons from Lumen’s approach to automating workflows. Andy shares a less comfortable example: software he built with AI that helped him get work done while failures went unnoticed.
The conversation also explores AI adoption pressure, the value of critical thinking, and why a read-only troubleshooting workflow can be a useful first step toward building confidence in a new tool.
Listen for a practical discussion of how trust develops in network technology, and what AI still needs to earn.For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Chapters
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AI, Systems Thinking, and the Future of Network Engineers
With Ryan Booth
AI can write code, troubleshoot systems, build applications, analyze telemetry, and increasingly take actions on our behalf.So what happens to humans?In this episode of The Art of Network Engineering, Andy sits …
Show notes
AI can write code, troubleshoot systems, build applications, analyze telemetry, and increasingly take actions on our behalf.
So what happens to humans?
In this episode of The Art of Network Engineering, Andy sits down with Ryan Booth to explore what becomes more valuable as AI gets better at doing the work humans do.
The conversation starts with systems thinking. Everyone from technology leaders to engineers is talking about the need for systems thinkers, but what does that mean? Are network engineers better positioned for it than they realize?
Ryan explains why working with increasingly capable AI systems pushed him away from thinking like an individual engineer and toward thinking more like a manager, architect, and orchestrator. Instead of specifying every task, the job increasingly becomes defining outcomes, understanding dependencies, evaluating results, and deciding how much autonomy to give the system.
Andy and Ryan discuss human-in-the-loop automation, AI agents, building trust through progressively greater responsibility, the limits of today's systems, and why replacing people may be the wrong way to think about AI.
They also get into the fear surrounding AI, the enormous economic incentives driving its development, parallels with previous technology revolutions, and what engineers should do right now to prepare.
The takeaway isn't to outrun AI.
It's to learn how to use it, understand the systems around it, and become more valuable at the level where judgment, integration, leadership, and context matter.
Topics include:
• Systems thinking for network engineers
• AI agents and autonomous systems
• Human-in-the-loop automation
• How to build trust in AI systems
• AI-assisted network troubleshooting
• The changing role of engineers
• Learning AI through personal projects
• Automation, orchestration, and architecture
• AI risk, hype, and uncertainty
• What technical professionals should learn nextRyan Booth: https://abstractryan.ai
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Chapters
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The Network Automation Paradox - You Need Time To Save Time
With Bart Dorlandt and Bart Smeding
Everyone says network engineers need to automate.Learn Python. Learn Ansible. Build a source of truth. Learn Git. Test your changes. Stop doing everything manually.There’s just one problem:When?At AutoCon 5 in …
Show notes
Everyone says network engineers need to automate.
Learn Python. Learn Ansible. Build a source of truth. Learn Git. Test your changes. Stop doing everything manually.
There’s just one problem:
When?
At AutoCon 5 in Munich, Andy Lapteff sits down with Dutch network automation consultants Bart Dorlandt and Bart Smeding for a conversation that starts with Python and eventually lands somewhere much more interesting: time.
Automation can turn three hours of work into three minutes. But getting there requires engineers to invest time they often don’t have, or don’t feel permitted to protect.
Andy knows that firsthand. At one point in his career, his manager gave him an entire day every week to learn automation. Instead, Andy kept using that day to catch up on operational work.
Why?
That question opens a much bigger conversation about engineering culture, burnout, professional identity, European and American attitudes toward work, change freezes, technical debt, and the endless tension between keeping today’s network running and building a better way to operate it tomorrow.
This isn’t another lecture telling network engineers to “learn Python.”
It’s a conversation about why that advice is so much easier to give than to follow, and what has to change if we want network automation to become common.
Bart Dorlandt:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bartdorlandt/Bart Smeding:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bartsmeding/For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Chapters
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The Power Of Curiosity | Drew Conry-Murray
With Drew Conry-Murray
How does an English major with no technical background become one of the most recognizable voices in network engineering?Drew Conry-Murray didn't start his career configuring routers, chasing …
Show notes
How does an English major with no technical background become one of the most recognizable voices in network engineering?
Drew Conry-Murray didn't start his career configuring routers, chasing certifications, or working in a NOC. He started as a copy editor who barely understood the networking articles crossing his desk.
Then someone threw him into a technical interview with a firewall vendor.
He had to figure it out.
That moment became part of a career spanning Network Computing, Interop, Packet Pushers, Network Break, Heavy Networking, and years of conversations with some of the smartest people in the networking industry.
In this episode of The Art of Network Engineering, Andy sits down with Drew to talk about the career behind the microphone: learning networking without formal technical training, developing the ability to ask better questions, surviving layoffs and career uncertainty, building relationships that create opportunities, and adapting as technology changes.
And, inevitably, they get into AI.
Drew explains why network engineers should become conversant with AI without assuming they need to become AI experts, why understanding software may matter more than writing every line yourself, and why human relationships still create an advantage even as technology becomes more capable.
In this episode:
- How Drew went from English major to networking journalist
- Learning networking by being thrown into the deep end
- Why asking good questions is a technical skill
- The uncomfortable reality that learning in tech never ends
- Drew's path from Network Computing and Interop to Packet Pushers
- What losing a job does to your identity
- Why relationships create career opportunities
- Whether network engineers really need to learn Python
- How AI may reshape technical careers
- Why being good at your job isn't always enough
One of the strongest lessons from Drew's career is simple: you don't need to know everything before you start. You need enough curiosity to keep figuring out the next thing.
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Stop Vibe Coding: Start Spec-Driven Development, with John Capobianco
With Eric Chou and John Capobianco
John Capobianco is back, and this time the two of us are sitting in Munich building a subnetting game from scratch, live, with spec-driven development.I've been vibe coding automations for the show for …
Show notes
John Capobianco is back, and this time the two of us are sitting in Munich building a subnetting game from scratch, live, with spec-driven development.
I've been vibe coding automations for the show for about six months. Some of it works. A lot of it falls over, and I've spent too many late nights chasing bugs in software I couldn't rely on.John wanted to show me a more structured way to build with an LLM: a constitution first, then a spec, then a clarify step where the model comes back with questions, then a plan, then the code.
Along the way we get into what a spec really is (closer to a network change plan than you'd think), why the tests get written and run without you asking, the token bill that caught John by surprise, and the CCNA study pain that nearly made both of us quit over subnetting. Eric Chou stops in partway through with his own take on why he doesn't get stuck anymore.
It's a real build, so it's messy in the good way.
John Capobianco: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/guests/john-capobianco
Eric Chou: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/guests/eric-chou
Spec Kit: https://github.com/github/spec-kit
NAF / AutoCon: https://networkautomation.forum/For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
500 Hours of Foosball, 20 Hours on Your Career | Mike Bushong on Staying Valuable
With Mike Bushong
How much time did you invest in your career last year?At AutoCon 5 in Munich, Andy sits down with Mike Bushong for a candid conversation about career growth, automation, AI, and staying valuable as network …
Show notes
How much time did you invest in your career last year?
At AutoCon 5 in Munich, Andy sits down with Mike Bushong for a candid conversation about career growth, automation, AI, and staying valuable as network engineering continues to change.
Mike pushes back on one of the industry's most common narratives: learn automation and AI or get left behind.
Technology is changing, and learning new skills creates opportunity. But Mike argues that career development shouldn't be driven by fear. It should be about creating optionality; giving yourself more possible paths as your career and the industry evolve.
Then comes the foosball story.
Mike once worked with an engineer who desperately wanted to move into leadership but wasn't making progress. Over the course of a year, that engineer spent roughly 500 hours getting very good at foosball.
Mike asked him a much harder question:
How many hours did you spend improving your career?
That leads to the central idea of this episode: your expectations and your effort have to match.
Andy and Mike explore how network engineers can keep growing without chasing every trend, why deep technical knowledge may become more valuable as AI commoditizes access to information, and how gaining a little exposure across different areas creates "surface area" for future knowledge to accumulate.
You don't need to improve along every axis. You don't need to become an expert in everything. But you do need to keep growing.
Start small. Build exposure. Go deep where it matters. Let knowledge compound.
And every once in a while, ask yourself:
500 hours of foosball. How many hours on your career?
Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/500-hours-of-foosball-20-hours-on-your-career-mike-bushong-on-staying-valuable
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
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Cursor for Network Engineers? Meet Transit AI (Sponsored)
With Knox Hutchinson
AI is rapidly changing software development, but why are network engineers still hesitant to trust it?In this sponsored episode, Andy welcomes back CBT Nuggets trainer and Data Knox creator Knox Hutchinson to …
Show notes
AI is rapidly changing software development, but why are network engineers still hesitant to trust it?
In this sponsored episode, Andy welcomes back CBT Nuggets trainer and Data Knox creator Knox Hutchinson to discuss the intersection of AI, networking, and modern operations. Before building Transit AI, Knox spent years as a software developer delivering enterprise applications for financial institutions before transitioning into networking, a perspective that gives him a unique view of why AI adoption has looked so different across the two disciplines.
Together they explore:
- Why software engineers embraced AI years before network engineers
- The real reasons network professionals distrust AI, and whether those concerns are justified
- How enterprise software differs from "vibe coding"
- Why AI should investigate network problems, not make changes
- How junior engineers can troubleshoot complex outages with confidence
- The role of guardrails, policy enforcement, and local LLMs in enterprise networking
- A live demonstration of Transit AI troubleshooting a DMVPN outage in under a minute
Rather than replacing engineers, Knox argues that AI can eliminate cognitive overload, accelerate troubleshooting, and help teams collaborate more effectively, while keeping humans firmly in control of production networks.
Links:
- Download Transit AI's free-forever SSH, serial, and API client:
https://transitai.app/aone
- Test drive Transit AI's investigation-only troubleshooting capabilities with their 14-day free trial.
For all things AONE, check out https://artofnetworkengineering.com/*Transit AI is an AI-assisted SSH client designed to help network engineers investigate and troubleshoot infrastructure while preventing AI from making configuration changes.
Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/cursor-for-network-engineers-meet-transit-ai
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Chapters
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whoami: Network Engineering's Identity Crisis
With Chris Grundemann and Scott Robohn
In Linux, the whoami command returns the identity of the current user.But what happens when engineers ask that same question about themselves?Who am I if I am no longer the person who knows every command? Who …
Show notes
In Linux, the whoami command returns the identity of the current user.
But what happens when engineers ask that same question about themselves?
Who am I if I am no longer the person who knows every command? Who am I if automation can perform the work I spent years mastering? Who am I if AI can write code I never learned how to write?
At AutoCon 5 in Munich, Andy Lapteff sat down with Network Automation Forum founders Chris Grundemann and Scott Robohn to examine one of the biggest barriers to technological change: identity.
For decades, network engineers built their careers around mastering the CLI. Certifications, maintenance windows, troubleshooting experience, and vendor-specific knowledge reinforced a particular definition of what it meant to be a skilled engineer.
Automation challenges that definition.
When our skills become part of our identity, new tools do not simply feel unfamiliar. They can feel threatening. Instead of objectively evaluating the technology, we protect the version of ourselves that the technology appears to be replacing.
This conversation explores how identity shapes our worldview, determines which ideas we are willing to consider, influences our career decisions, and ultimately affects our outcomes.
Andy also shares his own journey from publicly resisting network automation to working with Python, GitHub, AI coding tools, and open-source collaboration.
The group discusses why automation reallocates attention rather than simply saving time, how it reduces cognitive load, why engineers do not need to become professional programmers, and how AI is changing what technical expertise looks like.
The tools will keep changing.
The more important question is whether your identity can change with them.
Links:
• AONE Website: https://artofnetworkengineering.com
• NAF: https://networkautomation.forum/
• Scott Robohn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottrobohn/
• Chris Grundemann: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cgrundemann/Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/whoami-network-engineering-s-identity-crisis
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
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The Biggest Myth About Open Source
With William Collins
Does making your code public mean giving away your best ideas?It's a question more developers are asking as AI makes software creation more accessible than ever.After spending decades believing software …
Show notes
Does making your code public mean giving away your best ideas?
It's a question more developers are asking as AI makes software creation more accessible than ever.
After spending decades believing software development wasn't for him, Andy Lapteff has spent the last several months building real applications with AI-assisted coding tools like Claude Code. That journey led to a bigger question:
Should you make your GitHub repositories public?
Joining Andy is William Collins for a thoughtful discussion about open source software, GitHub, intellectual property, AI-assisted development, and why the real value in software may have far less to do with code than most people think.
Together they explore why projects like Terraform became industry standards, how open source communities create powerful network effects, and why execution—not ideas—often becomes the real competitive advantage.
They also discuss the changing role of AI in software development, the future of technical careers, and why builders, entrepreneurs, and network engineers should rethink what it means to create value in the age of AI.
In this episode, you'll learn:
- Why open source doesn't necessarily mean giving away your ideas
- When to keep a GitHub repository private—and when to make it public
- Why community can become a stronger competitive advantage than code
- How AI tools like Claude Code are changing software development
- What network engineers can learn from open source software
- Why execution matters more than protecting ideas
Whether you're a developer, network engineer, entrepreneur, or simply curious about how AI is changing software, this conversation will challenge some long-held assumptions about open source, intellectual property, and building technology.
Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/the-biggest-myth-about-open-source
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Why Most Network Designs Are Flawed
With James Bensley
Andy Lapteff sits down with network architect James Bensley at AutoCon 5 in Munich to explore the realities of service provider networking, architecture, automation, and standards development. James shares his …
Show notes
Andy Lapteff sits down with network architect James Bensley at AutoCon 5 in Munich to explore the realities of service provider networking, architecture, automation, and standards development.
James shares his path from support engineer to architect, explains how network designs evolve, and discusses how architects balance business requirements, operational simplicity, and long-term scalability.
The episode also explores product development, the IETF, RFCs, and why understanding fundamentals still matters more than chasing the latest buzzwords.
A must-listen for network engineers interested in architecture, automation, or service provider networking.Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/why-most-network-designs-are-flawed
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
From Network Engineer to Product Marketing: A Career Path for Communicators
With Patrick McCabe
What happens when a network engineer realizes their biggest strength isn’t just technology, it’s communication?In this episode of The Art of Network Engineering, Andy Lapteff sits down with Patrick McCabe to …
Show notes
What happens when a network engineer realizes their biggest strength isn’t just technology, it’s communication?
In this episode of The Art of Network Engineering, Andy Lapteff sits down with Patrick McCabe to discuss the transition from network engineering into product marketing and other vendor-side technical roles.
Pat shares stories from:
- carrier-scale networking,
- tier 3 operational support,
- IPTV deployments at AT&T,
- systems engineering,
- sales,
- and eventually product marketing leadership.
Together, they discuss:
- why some engineers naturally gravitate toward communication-focused roles,
- how soft skills accelerate technical careers,
- the realities of outages and operational burnout,
- the difference between engineering and product marketing mindsets,
- and why AI is changing how technical professionals work.
This episode is especially relevant for engineers who enjoy:
- teaching,
- storytelling,
- customer interaction,
- content creation,
- mentoring,
- or translating technical complexity into business value.
If you’ve ever wondered what comes after network operations, this conversation offers an honest look at one possible path forward.
Topics discussed:
Product marketing, vendor careers, systems engineering, AI, technical communication, networking careers, maintenance windows, IPTV, AT&T networking, soft skills, sales engineering, and career growth in IT.Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/from-network-engineer-to-product-marketing-a-career-path-for-communicators
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Networking for AI: Why Every Network Engineer Should Pay Attention in 2026
With Scott Robohn
AI infrastructure is reshaping networking faster than most engineers realize.In this episode, Andy Lapteff sits down with Scott Robohn to discuss why traditional network engineers should start paying attention …
Show notes
AI infrastructure is reshaping networking faster than most engineers realize.
In this episode, Andy Lapteff sits down with Scott Robohn to discuss why traditional network engineers should start paying attention to AI networking, GPU infrastructure, and the massive changes happening inside modern data centers.
They explore:
- Why AI workloads are changing networking requirements
- GPU networking and lossless Ethernet
- Ethernet vs InfiniBand
- The rise of NeoCloud providers
- Co-Packaged Optics (CPO)
- Ultra Ethernet and emerging transport technologies
- Why AI infrastructure behaves like “one giant computer”
- How network engineers can start learning this technology today
This conversation cuts through the hype and focuses on what actually matters for engineers trying to stay relevant as AI continues transforming the industry.
Whether you're a traditional network operator, automation engineer, architect, or someone curious about the future of networking, this episode will help you understand where the industry is heading next.
Guest: Scott Robohn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottrobohn/Connect with The Art of Network Engineering:
https://artofnetworkengineering.comFull show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/networking-for-ai-why-every-network-engineer-should-pay-attention-in-2026
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Why Most Engineers Struggle to Build Visibility (And How to Change That)
With Tom Hollingsworth
Andy Lapteff sits down in person with Tom Hollingsworth ahead of Networking Field Day 40 for a wide-ranging conversation about Tech Field Day, what makes a great delegate, how great technical conversations …
Show notes
Andy Lapteff sits down in person with Tom Hollingsworth ahead of Networking Field Day 40 for a wide-ranging conversation about Tech Field Day, what makes a great delegate, how great technical conversations happen, and why curiosity remains one of the most important traits in networking.
Tom shares the “secret sauce” behind Field Day: strong content, the right audience, and logistics that make the experience valuable for both vendors and delegates. Andy and Tom also discuss AI in networking, the difference between AI for infrastructure and infrastructure for AI, how new voices get discovered in the tech community, and why putting yourself out there can change the trajectory of your career.
If you want to grow your presence in the networking industry or learn how to ask better technical questions, this episode is for you.
Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/why-most-engineers-struggle-to-build-visibility-and-how-to-change-that
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Tech Careers Are Built on Relationships, Not Resumes
With Jason Gintert
In this episode, we break down why traditional job applications are failing and how networking communities like USNUA are becoming the fastest path to career growth in IT.You’ll learn: Why applying online isn’t …
Show notes
In this episode, we break down why traditional job applications are failing and how networking communities like USNUA are becoming the fastest path to career growth in IT.
You’ll learn:
- Why applying online isn’t working
- How real opportunities come from real conversations
- Why community matters more than certifications
You don’t get hired through applications. You get hired through people.
If you want to grow your career, this is the shift you need to make.
Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/tech-careers-are-built-on-relationships-not-resumes
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
You Don’t Need Python Anymore: Hello World For AI
With John Capobianco
For years, network engineers were told the same thing:“Learn Python… or fall behind.”But what if that’s no longer true?In this episode, we walk through a real Hello World for AI in networking: connecting an AI …
Show notes
For years, network engineers were told the same thing:
“Learn Python… or fall behind.”
But what if that’s no longer true?
In this episode, we walk through a real Hello World for AI in networking: connecting an AI agent to NetBox using Model Context Protocol (MCP) and querying network data in natural language.
No scripts.
No Python expertise.
Just results.This is a live, unfiltered build, from cloning a repo to debugging JSON to finally asking:
“How many sites do I have in New York?”
…and getting an answer instantly.
What You’ll Learn:
- Why Python is no longer the entry point to network automation
- What MCP is and how it connects AI to your network
- How to query NetBox using natural language
- How AI handles tasks that used to require scripts
- Where human-in-the-loop still matters
Why This Matters:
Most network engineers haven’t started automation, not because they don’t want to, but because the barrier felt too high.
AI just lowered it.
This episode shows you exactly where to start.
Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/you-don-t-need-python-anymore-hello-world-for-ai
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Chapters
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Grow Your Career in 2026
With Danny Finein, David Henderson, Drew Conry-Murray, and Pat Allen
What does a network engineer actually make in 2025–2026? How do you ask for a raise without making it weird? And what's the single biggest thing holding your career back? We recorded this one live.This …
Show notes
What does a network engineer actually make in 2025–2026? How do you ask for a raise without making it weird? And what's the single biggest thing holding your career back? We recorded this one live.
This episode comes straight from the US Networking User Association PA Network User Group 2026 Spring Career Day — a standing-room-only event organized by USNUA in the Philadelphia area. Five talks. Five perspectives. All of it relevant to where you are right now in your career.
Drew Conroy Murray from Packet Pushers kicks things off with highlights from their global salary survey — 418 respondents across 33 countries, with some genuinely surprising numbers around certifications, tools, and geographic salary gaps. Pat follows with a straightforward breakdown of how to build your case, time your ask, and walk out of a raise conversation with something — even if the answer is no.
David takes it from there with a hard truth most engineers don't want to hear: being good at your job is the floor, not the ceiling. Visibility, advocacy, and knowing who has influence over your next move matters more than you think. Danny brings the career path conversation — why management isn't the only way up, why passion matters more than a title, and why finding your people changes everything.
Andy closes with a personal story about unemployment, cognitive bias, and what it actually took to unlearn a decade of being anti-automation. Fair warning: it gets real.
This is the kind of conversation that usually stays in the room. We're glad we got to record it.
Topics covered: salary benchmarks, asking for a raise, promotion strategy, career pathing, network automation, cognitive bias, personal brand, soft skills
Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/grow-your-career-in-2026
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Radia Perlman: You’re Solving the Wrong Problem
With Lexie Cooper and Radia Perlman
What if the biggest problem in networking is that we’re solving the wrong one?In this episode of The Art of Network Engineering, Andy and Lexie sit down with Radia Perlman, one of the most influential figures …
Show notes
What if the biggest problem in networking is that we’re solving the wrong one?
In this episode of The Art of Network Engineering, Andy and Lexie sit down with Radia Perlman, one of the most influential figures in networking history and the inventor of Spanning Tree Protocol.
This conversation goes far beyond protocols and configurations. Radia shares how networking evolved, through constraints, tradeoffs, and human decisions, and why so much of what we learn today is incomplete without understanding the problems those technologies were trying to solve.
You’ll hear:
- Why Ethernet was never designed to be used the way we use it today
- How Spanning Tree came to be, and why it wasn’t meant to be permanent
- The blurred lines between Layer 2 and Layer 3
- The real reason BGP exists (and its limitations)
- Why engineers often jump into solutions before understanding the problem
- What people get wrong about quantum computing and AI
This is one of those conversations that doesn’t just teach you what networking is, it changes how you think about it.
About AONE
The Art of Network Engineering explores the human side of IT—real stories, real lessons, and practical insights from people shaping the industry.Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/radia-perlman-you-re-solving-the-wrong-problem
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Wi-Fi 7 Explained: What Network Engineers Need to Know
With Greg Grimes
In this episode, Andy sits down with Gregory Grimes to unpack the world of Wi-Fi 7 and what it means for network engineers.If wireless has ever felt like magic compared to the predictability of route/switch …
Show notes
In this episode, Andy sits down with Gregory Grimes to unpack the world of Wi-Fi 7 and what it means for network engineers.
If wireless has ever felt like magic compared to the predictability of route/switch, this conversation is for you. Andy and Greg walk through the evolution of wireless networking, from the early days of 802.11 to the latest innovations in Wi-Fi 7, including wider channels, better spectrum use, resource units, and multi-link operation (MLO).
They also explore the real-world question every engineer asks: who actually needs Wi-Fi 7? Is it a game changer for the average home user, or does it really shine in high-density and high-performance environments like classrooms, auditoriums, healthcare, and immersive AR/VR use cases?
Along the way, they translate complex wireless concepts into practical networking language that route/switch engineers can relate to, making this a great episode for anyone who wants to better understand modern wireless without needing a CWNA-level deep dive.
In this episode:
- A quick history of Wi-Fi and the 802.11 standard
- Why wireless feels so different from wired networking
- How contention, collisions, and airtime shape wireless performance
- What OFDMA and resource units actually do
- What makes Wi-Fi 7 different from Wi-Fi 6/6E
- How MLO changes the wireless conversation
- Why deterministic wireless matters
- Where Wi-Fi 7 fits in the enterprise
- When it makes sense to upgrade — and when it doesn’t
The episode also closes with a great reminder that networking is about more than protocols and throughput. Greg shares why the Art of Network Engineering community has mattered to him from the beginning, and why finding your people in this industry makes all the difference.
Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/wi-fi-7-explained-what-network-engineers-need-to-know
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
The ABCs of AI
With John Capobianco and Mike Bushong
“AI Won’t Replace You, But Someone Using AI Might”AI is everywhere; stickers, marketing, hype. Network engineers are understandably skeptical.In this episode, Andy Lapteff is joined by longtime friend of the …
Show notes
“AI Won’t Replace You, But Someone Using AI Might”
AI is everywhere; stickers, marketing, hype. Network engineers are understandably skeptical.
In this episode, Andy Lapteff is joined by longtime friend of the show John Capobianco (now Head of AI & DevRel at Itencho) and Mike Bushong for a practical, optimistic “ABCs of AI” discussion designed for working network engineers.
We start with a blunt reality: automation adoption is still low, and the old “automate or die” narrative hasn’t helped. Then we pivot into what’s changed: modern models are strong enough to be useful, but only if you stop treating them like a search bar and start connecting them to real tooling and real data.
John explains the core building blocks—LLMs, RAG, agentic workflows, and especially Model Context Protocol (MCP)—and why MCP may be the protocol that finally makes AI feel operationally real.
Finally, we land on a concrete “Hello World” for neteng: connect an AI client to a source of truth like NetBox or Nautobot (in a sandbox), start with read-only workflows (logs, config deltas, compliance), and build from there—safely.
If you’ve been curious but overwhelmed, this is your on-ramp.
Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/the-abcs-of-ai
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Life-Saving Networks
With Josh Morris and Remington Loose
What does “mission-critical networking” really mean?At St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital, it’s not about uptime SLAs or dashboard metrics; it’s about supporting the research and care that helps save …
Show notes
What does “mission-critical networking” really mean?
At St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital, it’s not about uptime SLAs or dashboard metrics; it’s about supporting the research and care that helps save children’s lives.
In this episode, we sit down with Remington Loose and Josh Morris to explore the architecture, scale, and responsibility behind one of the most meaningful networks in the world.
We dig into:
- How research networking differs from traditional enterprise IT
- The massive data demands behind pediatric cancer research
- Designing networks where downtime isn’t just inconvenient, it’s unacceptable
- Supporting clinicians, researchers, and life-saving applications simultaneously
- Lessons enterprise engineers can learn from healthcare environments
From high-performance data movement to reliability strategies that operate without margin for error, this conversation reframes what networking looks like when human outcomes are on the line.
Because in environments like St. Jude…
The network isn’t just infrastructure; it’s part of the care team.
Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/life-saving-networks
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Learn to Code With AI
With Erika Dietrick
Erika Dietrick (aka “Erika the Dev”) is back on the show, and she’s days away from a major life change (welcome, Baby Dev). In this follow-up conversation, we dig into the thing that keeps coming up in network …
Show notes
Erika Dietrick (aka “Erika the Dev”) is back on the show, and she’s days away from a major life change (welcome, Baby Dev). In this follow-up conversation, we dig into the thing that keeps coming up in network engineering careers: programming is no longer a “nice-to-have.”
Erika breaks down her free YouTube course designed specifically for network engineers: Level 1 is “programmatic thinking” (the mindset + foundations), Level 2 is where AI becomes your learning accelerator, and Level 3 is about generating code responsibly, without falling into the “vibe coding” trap.
We also talk about why coding feels so foreign to CLI lifers, why so many “slick” courses lose beginners, and how to use AI like Google-on-steroids. If you’ve ever thought, “I’m not smart enough for this” or “I don’t have time,” this one’s for you.
What we cover:
- Why network engineers struggle with coding (and it’s not your fault)
- The difference between using AI while coding vs vibe coding
- How to build foundations that make AI actually useful
- Why libraries matter, and how Level 2 focuses on network automation libraries
- Career reality: why Python shows up in job descriptions everywhere
Find Erika:
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@UCkWURMuDQZox53bskCFS6vw
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erikadietrick/Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/learn-to-code-with-ai
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Why Projects Fail
With Eyvonne Sharp and Mike Bushong
We've all worked on those technical projects that felt doomed from the start. In this episode, we're joined by Eyvonne Sharp and Mike Bushong to dig into what actually derails technical projects, and …
Show notes
We've all worked on those technical projects that felt doomed from the start.
In this episode, we're joined by Eyvonne Sharp and Mike Bushong to dig into what actually derails technical projects, and why the root cause is usually people, not packets.
We unpack:
- Why 80–90% of project failures aren’t technical
- What “executive sponsorship” is supposed to mean (and why most teams never use it)
- The real reason timelines feel arbitrary: information asymmetry
- What “healthy escalation” looks like (and how to avoid the courtroom vibe)
- How to deliver bad news to leaders: few words, calm tone, clear next step, clear ask
- The leadership move that instantly lowers the temperature: removing blame
- Why informal networks matter, including a legendary security-incident save powered by… cheesecake
If you’ve ever felt stuck in status-call theater, pressured to keep the project's status green, or unsure how to talk to leadership when reality hits, this episode is your playbook.Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/why-projects-fail
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Why Engineers Struggle to Communicate (And How to Fix It Fast)
With Colin Doyle
Recorded on-site in Austin, Texas, at AutoCon 4 (Network Automation Forum), Andy sits down with Colin Doyle to talk about the human side of technical communication and why it matters more than ever in technical …
Show notes
Recorded on-site in Austin, Texas, at AutoCon 4 (Network Automation Forum), Andy sits down with Colin Doyle to talk about the human side of technical communication and why it matters more than ever in technical careers.
They dig into practical speaking advice for engineers: how to slow down without losing authority, why “dead air” feels scarier than it is, how to stop relying on scripts, and how to structure a talk so your audience can repeat your message when you leave the room. Colin shares the “audience-first” mindset shift: don’t tell your story, tell the audience’s story with you in it.
Then the conversation widens into the network automation adoption problem: why network automation still lags behind other IT domains, why tooling fragmentation creates anxiety (“what if I learn the wrong thing?”), and why starting with Python is often the safest first step. Colin also reframes overlays (EVPN/VXLAN) as a fundamental shift: abstraction changes operations, pushes configuration to the edge, and makes intent-based operations and assurance the real job.
If you’re a CLI lifer preparing to level up, or you’re giving your first big talk, this episode is a practical, grounding guide.
In this episode: communication fundamentals, talk prep, booth culture at AutoCon, automation adoption barriers, overlays → intent → assurance, and why you don’t need to be a “kung fu wizard” to start automating.
Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/why-engineers-struggle-to-communicate-and-how-to-fix-it-fast
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
What is IS-IS?
With Mike Bushong and Russ White
Most network engineers know BGP, OSPF, and maybe EIGRP, but far fewer have hands-on experience with ISIS. In this episode of The Art of Network Engineering, Andy Lapteff sits down with Russ White and Mike …
Show notes
Most network engineers know BGP, OSPF, and maybe EIGRP, but far fewer have hands-on experience with ISIS. In this episode of The Art of Network Engineering, Andy Lapteff sits down with Russ White and Mike Bushong for a deep, opinionated, and refreshingly honest discussion about routing protocol design in modern data centers.
We explore why BGP has become the default hammer for every networking nail, what we lose when we blend underlay and overlay into a single protocol, and why some of the largest networks in the world still rely on IS-IS for simplicity, scale, and resilience.
This isn’t a “which protocol is best” argument, it’s a design conversation. One about failure domains, operational reality, education gaps, and why many engineers never learn the protocols that quietly power hyperscale networks.
In this episode:
Why BGP is policy-rich but intentionally slow
The architectural value of separating underlay and overlay
How ISIS works and why it’s simpler than you think
TLVs, scalability, and protocol evolution
Why familiarity often beats good design (for better or worse)
Where RIFT fits and where it doesn’t
The cost of losing deep protocol knowledge as engineers retire
If you’ve ever wondered why networks are designed the way they are, or if you’ve felt uneasy about “just using BGP everywhere,” this conversation is for you.
Subscribe for more conversations where technology meets the human side of IT.Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/what-is-is-is
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Building the Right Network
With Kevin Myers
In this special on-location episode of The Art of Network Engineering, Andy Lapteff sits down in person with Kevin Myers for a conversation that pulls no punches.Kevin brings decades of service provider and …
Show notes
In this special on-location episode of The Art of Network Engineering, Andy Lapteff sits down in person with Kevin Myers for a conversation that pulls no punches.
Kevin brings decades of service provider and whitebox experience to the table as the two dive deep into one of networking’s most complex decisions: how to choose the right vendor to build your network.
From Cisco to whitebox, from enterprise carpeted IT to hyperscale data centers, this episode is all about designing networks that align with business needs, not just personal bias or legacy choices.
Topics include:
Why vendor selection should come after requirements gathering.
How multi-vendor environments can create both resilience and complexity.
When whitebox networking makes sense—and what kind of teams can support it.
The hidden "operational tax" of expanding your vendor portfolio.
Why understanding the business is the most critical skill for modern engineers.
Whether you're a design engineer, network architect, or just trying to future-proof your ops, this episode is packed with insights that will change how you think about gear, vendors, and the networks we build.Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/building-the-right-network
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Resilience, Reputation, and MCP
With William Collins
Andy sits down with longtime friend William Collins to unpack three big themes shaping modern NetOps. First: the AWS US-East-1 outage and the myth that “cloud = resiliency by default.” They explore blast …
Show notes
Andy sits down with longtime friend William Collins to unpack three big themes shaping modern NetOps.
First: the AWS US-East-1 outage and the myth that “cloud = resiliency by default.” They explore blast radius, hidden regional dependencies, cost trade-offs (active/active vs. DR), and why resiliency is engineered, not purchased.
Next: how public speaking accelerates a technical career (without live-demo heartbreak). William shares practical tactics to craft a memorable talk, lean on story, and handle Q&A.
Finally: a plain-English walkthrough of Model Context Protocol (MCP), why it exists, how it standardizes tool access for LLMs, and what that means for real NetOps workflows.
If you design for failure, want to level up your communication skills, or keep hearing “MCP” and wonder what it actually does, this one’s for you.
Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/resilience-reputation-and-mcp
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Learn the Business, Grow Your Career
With Mike Bushong and Scott Robohn
Network engineers don’t tune into corporate all-hands because they’re “lazy,” they tune out because the message often isn’t for them. In this episode of The Art of Network Engineering, Andy Lapteff sits down …
Show notes
Network engineers don’t tune into corporate all-hands because they’re “lazy,” they tune out because the message often isn’t for them. In this episode of The Art of Network Engineering, Andy Lapteff sits down with longtime industry leaders Scott Robohn and Mike Bushong to unpack the disconnect between engineering teams and executive communications, and how to fix it.
They talk about:
- Why engineers roll their eyes at town halls, earnings calls, and “four pillars of excellence”
- How leadership actually thinks about growth, stock price, cost centers, and enablement
- The two jobs every company really has: build stuff or sell stuff, and where networking fits
- How to pitch your ideas in business terms so they get funded
- Why AI networking and data center infrastructure are the next durable growth areas for network pros
- The difference between being part of the product vs. enabling the product, and why it matters for your career
If you’ve ever thought, “Just let me do my job,” this one’s for you. You’ll walk away knowing how to connect your automation, operations, or data center work to the outcomes your company actually cares about: revenue, speed, customer experience, and risk.
Listen in, take notes, and then go advocate for your work like it matters, because it does.
Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/learn-the-business-grow-your-career
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Study Streams and Space Dreams with Lexie Cooper
With Lexie Cooper
Blue Origin’s Lexie Cooper is back! We riff on New Glenn’s first launch and what “vehicle #2” means for launch cadence, where to watch from Florida without getting arrested, and why streaming your learning …
Show notes
Blue Origin’s Lexie Cooper is back! We riff on New Glenn’s first launch and what “vehicle #2” means for launch cadence, where to watch from Florida without getting arrested, and why streaming your learning, even when it’s awkward, is a cheat code for growth.
Andy shares his live Python study saga (and a friendly dust-up with Jeff about “just code it”), while Lexie takes us down to Layer 1: PHYs, link pulses, why “turning off auto-negotiation” isn’t always what you think, and why messy home labs beat pretty cable porn.
We also get real about authenticity at vendors, the pressure to be “polished,” and whether networking is still a great career in an automation-heavy market.
If you need a nudge to build, break, and learn in public, this one’s it.
In this episode:
New Glenn’s growing fleet & why multiple boosters matter
How/where to catch a Florida launch (scrubs happen)
Learning in public: textbooks on stream, tension on mic, real takeaways
PHY vs. ASIC, MAC sublayers, and auto-neg gotchas (with an oscilloscope!)
Home labs: why “spaghetti” > showroom racks for actual learning
Careers: automation pressure, Git for config history, staying authentic
Streaming nuts & bolts: TikTok vs. Twitch vs. YouTube, OBS scenes 101
Women in networking and inviting more people into the fieldFull show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/study-streams-and-space-dreams-with-lexie-cooper
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
Python Party - Episode 2
Learning Python as a network engineer can feel confusing, frustrating, and let’s be honest, pretty dry at times. But Andy and Jeff are diving in together to make it real, relatable, and (hopefully) a little …
Show notes
Learning Python as a network engineer can feel confusing, frustrating, and let’s be honest, pretty dry at times. But Andy and Jeff are diving in together to make it real, relatable, and (hopefully) a little more fun.
In this episode, they pick up where the last Python Party left off: exploring variables, strings, methods like .title() and .strip(), and why whitespace can break your scripts. Along the way, they share honest struggles, “aha!” moments, and practical applications for automation in the networking world.
If you’ve ever looked at Python code and thought, “this isn’t for me,” this episode will make you feel seen. Join Andy and Jeff as they lab, laugh, and learn the building blocks that every network engineer needs to stay relevant in an automated future.Full show notes, transcript and links: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/episodes/python-party-episode-2
For everything AONE: https://artofnetworkengineering.com/
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